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-   -   Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively? (/forums/showthread.php?t=891410)

SolidSquid 09-20-2016 09:07 AM

Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
I'm still having issues with defenders in zone not attempting to make plays on the ball and just giving up very easy completions. Is there a way to make my defenders take more chances and try to jump some routes? Currently they are never in position to play the ball in the air, the only incompletions I get are from guys catching the ball and not getting 2 feet in or dropping it when they get hit.

What am I doing wrong? Also when should I call cover 3 vs cover 2?

Dj_MyTime 09-20-2016 09:53 AM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid (Post 2048449747)
I'm still having issues with defenders in zone not attempting to make plays on the ball and just giving up very easy completions. Is there a way to make my defenders take more chances and try to jump some routes? Currently they are never in position to play the ball in the air, the only incompletions I get are from guys catching the ball and not getting 2 feet in or dropping it when they get hit.

What am I doing wrong? Also when should I call cover 3 vs cover 2?

Sliders - Coverage / Reaction Time

howboutdat 09-20-2016 12:06 PM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
What i want to know is , can someone provide me real evidence that the presnap stuff on defense works?

I can call " over the top" all day when expecting a deep pass, and still get burnt on it most of the time. Same for " underneath " and " play outside" or " play inside" . I feel like this is more a gimmic than anything . I continue to get beat on these outside passed, in cover 3 , cover 3 match, cover 4 , and telling them presnap to cover outsides. Yet its completed ( wide open by 5 or more yards) almost every time.


Anyone got any video evidence this stuff works? cause im not seeing it work.

bcruise 09-20-2016 12:24 PM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by howboutdat (Post 2048450284)
What i want to know is , can someone provide me real evidence that the presnap stuff on defense works?

I can call " over the top" all day when expecting a deep pass, and still get burnt on it most of the time. Same for " underneath " and " play outside" or " play inside" . I feel like this is more a gimmic than anything . I continue to get beat on these outside passed, in cover 3 , cover 3 match, cover 4 , and telling them presnap to cover outsides. Yet its completed ( wide open by 5 or more yards) almost every time.


Anyone got any video evidence this stuff works? cause im not seeing it work.

There's visual evidence of the over/under adjustment having an effect because they visibly change the play art in coach cam. It's not just an "everyone plays deeper" adjustment though - it only changes the outside Zone assignments. Overtop puts them in Cloud Flat, Under puts them in Hard Flat. Man coverage, Yellow, and Dark Blue zones are all unaffected. So, if you're getting burned deep (as in, beyond the blue deep zones), that adjustment's not likely to be the culprit - nor will it be useful in stopping it.

Edit: Well, I don't know conclusively that it doesn't affect man, but I've always seen Man to be entirely driven by the matchups on the coach stick. So, being able to give specific instructions would override that matchup and those ratings. I don't think that would be intended.

Inside/Outside....yeah, those are hard to say because they don't change the art. But I at least think that since over/under probably only affect zone coverage, that in/out are only related to Zone too.

SolidSquid 09-20-2016 02:09 PM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bcruise (Post 2048450346)
There's visual evidence of the over/under adjustment having an effect because they visibly change the play art in coach cam. It's not just an "everyone plays deeper" adjustment though - it only changes the outside Zone assignments. Overtop puts them in Cloud Flat, Under puts them in Hard Flat. Man coverage, Yellow, and Dark Blue zones are all unaffected. So, if you're getting burned deep (as in, beyond the blue deep zones), that adjustment's not likely to be the culprit - nor will it be useful in stopping it.

Edit: Well, I don't know conclusively that it doesn't affect man, but I've always seen Man to be entirely driven by the matchups on the coach stick. So, being able to give specific instructions would override that matchup and those ratings. I don't think that would be intended.

Inside/Outside....yeah, those are hard to say because they don't change the art. But I at least think that since over/under probably only affect zone coverage, that in/out are only related to Zone too.

When you have a mismatch in man coverage adjustments are exactly what you need. It'd be stupid for them not to work in man. For examples if I have a scrub CB on Julio I want him playing over the top so atleast we don't give up the big play

TTD71 09-20-2016 02:22 PM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid (Post 2048450717)
When you have a mismatch in man coverage adjustments are exactly what you need. It'd be stupid for them not to work in man. For examples if I have a scrub CB on Julio I want him playing over the top so atleast we don't give up the big play

If you have a scrub defending Jones, you DESERVE to get beat! Expecting a cap player to shut down a stud wr because you entered an adjustment should NEVER work by itself. Change your scheme to avoid that or bring the heat to keep your opponent from finding it, but bad play calling that leaves bad players on good ones SHOULD hurt....

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Kentaurus 09-20-2016 04:02 PM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTD71 (Post 2048450763)
If you have a scrub defending Jones, you DESERVE to get beat! Expecting a cap player to shut down a stud wr because you entered an adjustment should NEVER work by itself. Change your scheme to avoid that or bring the heat to keep your opponent from finding it, but bad play calling that leaves bad players on good ones SHOULD hurt....

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So what your saying is never play man coverage. Since you can't control who covers a star WR if he moves into the slot, left, right etc. little unfair.

That said overtop and underneath certainly affect both man and zone coverage. I've fully come to the conclusion that inside and outside do nothing at this point. That said, don't press and think overtop coverage will save you, if you get beat at the line, there is little chance of recovering. Currently though I really like playing some man blitzes and using overtop coverage to avoid getting burned if they get the pass off.

SolidSquid 09-20-2016 04:32 PM

Re: Is there a way to make zones play more aggressively?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TTD71 (Post 2048450763)
If you have a scrub defending Jones, you DESERVE to get beat! Expecting a cap player to shut down a stud wr because you entered an adjustment should NEVER work by itself. Change your scheme to avoid that or bring the heat to keep your opponent from finding it, but bad play calling that leaves bad players on good ones SHOULD hurt....

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

No no no, I never meant I want scrub players to be able to shut down star WRs. Defense in football is much like basketball, you can't take everything away, but what it do is pick the hardest route for the offense to beat you. Now I don't want Julio to beat me on one catch for 80 yards, so playing my scrub corner off is an attempt to take that away. Now can he still get beat over the top sure but it shouldn't be as likely as it would if I was playing underneath or straight up. Also playing over the top means the wr will feast on intermediate and short routes.


It's a game of strategy ESPECIALLY when playing with sub par corners, there has to be a way to account for the differences and give your defense a chance.


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