Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

[EarvGotti]

Since the NBA season started, I purposely focused on the defensive side of the ball as it compares to 2k.

Bad rotations and blown assignments happen all the time in the NBA. So did 2k intentionally include this to replicate real life bball? Low defensive IQ players are more susceptible to these mistakes.

Maybe 2k was trying to simulate this "realism"?

What are your thoughts? Perfect defense can't be played all game long.

Sent from my BLU STUDIO 5.0 C using Tapatalk

[GSW]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I think it probably makes a lot more sense to program in correct defense and logic from a base X+O standpoint and then program indiviual players/teams to react differently from that base.

I highly doubt the terrible defense in 2k was done on "purpose" ...it's probably just very very hard to get that base correctly...especially because not everyone who says they want sim...actually wants sim...and the game still needs to be fun.

[Cowboyfan_19]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I don't have a problem with "blown" rotations from time to time, as the defensive settings can fix most of those problems.

My problem is something very very basic. The defenders CONSTANTLY do not follow the most fundamental, principle rule of defense: Stay BETWEEN your man and the basket. This is allowing too many bailout offensive rebounds and cuts to the basket leading to easy lay-ups and dunks.

[fluent2332]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Of course the AI defense should occasionally blow assignments, or simulate getting confused from time to time, etc. But from what I've seen in videos these situations are not replicated correctly. If a defender is looking right at an open shooter and doesn't rotate, for example, that's not really what should happen. Or a defender shuffling their feet to close out to someone from half way across the court, rather than sprinting, etc. Weird stuff like that makes it seem like there are issues with the game.

[Luke Skywalker]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Hmm, you may have a point OP. Didn't think about this one. It makes sense. Look at a player like James Harden for example, has no defensive prowess whatsoever.

Question is, does someone like Tony Allen or Kawhi Leonard make mistakes often in the game? Test this out


Notice on the Sliders how the attributes for Defensive Awareness is on the high end (65) instead of the norm 50 when facing the computer.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I don't want my players to get every steal, make the proper rotation every time and defend every pick and roll perfectly but the simple breakdowns that they have defensively is inexcusable. I'm talking stuff like this



The CPU can't even properly pick up its man in transition. It's literally backpedaling out of bounds, I mean come on now. And this is with my onball/offball settings set to Auto. I give up about 5-10+ points every game just off the strength of the AI being absolutely clueless about what they're supposed to do.

[fluent2332]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I don't want my players to get every steal, make the proper rotation every time and defend every pick and roll perfectly but the simple breakdowns that they have defensively is inexcusable. I'm talking stuff like this



The CPU can't even properly pick up its man in transition. It's literally backpedaling out of bounds, I mean come on now. And this is with my onball/offball settings set to Auto. I give up about 5-10+ points every game just off the strength of the AI being absolutely clueless about what they're supposed to do.

Exactly my point. The AI absolutely *needs* to have mistakes programmed in it. A 70 rated defender, for example, should occasionally get lost on a rotation, or improperly close-out, jump for a pump fake, or generally be in a bad defensive position, etc. etc. But they aren't simulating it correctly when the defenders just act incredibly stupid. I mean, it has to be programmed to relate to line of vision, too. There's simply no reason for a player who's looking RIGHT AT the offensive player to make the plays we're seeing in some of these videos. Same thing with doubling off of Steph Curry and leaving him wide open for a three, or transition D where Curry is going to the wing for a 3 and the defender runs in the paint and stands there for no reason, etc.

[Impetuous65]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

2K has talked to 28 NBA teams and from that info they were able to get team specific defensive schemes, couple that with "dynamic decision points" you have a recipe for an awesome defense that just like in real life they blow coverages and rotation. This is next level stuff, only available to those with a keen eye to detail. If you have your ACE on, you must play your part in the defense or you will break the defense as the A.I. Teammates with try to compensate for your being out of position. This advance scouting has made for one of the most ambitious defensive projects in 2k history, so any breakdowns on defense is more than likely user error.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

I don't want my players to get every steal, make the proper rotation every time and defend every pick and roll perfectly but the simple breakdowns that they have defensively is inexcusable. I'm talking stuff like this



The CPU can't even properly pick up its man in transition. It's literally backpedaling out of bounds, I mean come on now. And this is with my onball/offball settings set to Auto. I give up about 5-10+ points every game just off the strength of the AI being absolutely clueless about what they're supposed to do.

Hang on. Arent you controlling Pachulia in that clip?

[Simhead23]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

In the nba, I never seen a center leaving their man to help a point guard on the perimeter with his assignment, right after you picked their dribble up! That's what 2k17 is about. Well before the patch. I don't see it that much no more, I see proper breakdowns in rotations. So yes they improved the ai defense

[prestwood90]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Hang on. Arent you controlling Pachulia in that clip?

Lol I was thinking the same thing, it looked like he was running away from playing defense with the user controlled defender

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[BA2929]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Hang on. Arent you controlling Pachulia in that clip?

He is, but I believe he's referring to Steph Curry on the far left side of the screen running out of bounds instead of picking up Livingston as he comes up the court.

I mean I guess the user controlling Pachulia in that clip could have slowed down Livingston a little earlier instead of letting him drive completely into the paint, but CPU Steph should have done at least something there.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

That particular clip was caused by Zaza backing that far into the paint...

Curry picks up the first man he see's open. Which is bad logic, but I get why it happened.

You can see how early the 'Who to guard' arrow starts pointing from Zaza to Curry that the rotations are jacked up as a result.

I play on broadcast' half the time where I cant even see the PG until my opponent crosses half court and I cant say I ever really see the floodgates open to that extent on a consistent basis.

[fluent2332]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Saying Curry "picked up" anyone in that clip is a big stretch, IMO.

Even if he picked up the first guy he saw, he let him run by him and then shuffled out of bounds while guarding no one. IMO.

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Re: Blown Defensive Rotations: Sim or Broken logic?

Ok now I can agree because there is video and Curry was definitely strange there. Thank you for exactly posting a visual example of what is going on instead of just saying anything.