2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

[itchyroll_51]

In the video below you can see me using IRL NBA cut actions to score 108 paint points on HOF Jazz. I have edited both the NBA action alongside the 2K gameplay action so you can see what's wrong. This is not meant to be a show of strength or skills, it is made with the intention to shine light on a crucial part of 2K CPU defense that's broken: paint protection by the Centre and the team as a whole. Watch the vid below first and I will continue to make my points:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0KFG2HLob48" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I have talked to many sim heads on this and this isn't about you not DOING the cuts. First of all the cuts are real NBA actions done by Spurs and Warriors, the issue is that 2K can't defend them properly at all. We all need to have the devs talk to us about that and let us know will this be improved on for 2K18.

This is a forever legacy issue (terrible AI center paint protect) that 2K has been patching in all the wrong ways. Having super glue on ball D is not a solution for this. The offensive side of 2K has advance to a point where a user can legit replicate IRL NBA cut actions; however, this is kinda pointless if the defense is still stuck in the stone age. You saw 2K's AI paint defense in the vid, it is non sense and broken. I can say broken because you saw clips where the C (job is to protect paint) just stood there while Rondo goes for his 100th paint point.....

This issue of no paint protect happens every second on the court for the defense. Every single second in game a user or both users are dealing with this issue. This is significant and needs to be addressed.

Feel free to discuss your experience with this. Remember what i did here was extreme but is designed to show that this problem is happening every second on the court. Even if you don't take advantage of it, it is hurting you in hundreds of ways throughout the course of every game online AND offline.

Plus unlike my previous vids which focus on the PnR issue, this off ball cut issue shows an entire aspect of the game being wrecked. When a user can score 118 point with Rondo only going to the paint via legit NBA cuts, the devs need to talk to us about what's going on.

Sam Pham

*I decided to start a new thread on this issue because the other one was slowly getting derailed plus this one is on a whole new level ...... Paint protection = non existent, thats game breaking.....

[BoxyCougar]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

I really hope 2K addresses this. I've had dominating games making players cut and I've also struggled to defend the inside pass to the cutter numerous times because the center (or whoever is closest to the paint) responds to my command to defend the paint very slowly.

Great video Sam

[DonWuan]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Thats physics at its finest.

Im more surprised about the 8-8 freethrow at the half.

[Coach2K]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Much better example than the last one Sam.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are controlling Rondo during these cuts?


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[Gosens6]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Paint defense has been non existent in 2k games for as long as I can remember.

I have hammered this issue home for YEARS, along with many other OSers and it never changes. It's why the AI scores more than half their points in the paint with no resistance.

It's worse now, after patch 7 it seems like the AI only attacks the paint and nothing else. I've noticed PGs going back to their old habits of using dribble move after dribble move to barrel into the paint with no resistance.

If that doesn't work, they'll zip an unguardable pass to the paint for yet again, an uncontested layup. Defense NEEDS to be the main focus for 2k18. Forget giving the offense more of an advantage, forget equipping all these HOF offensive badges to the point where the devs give the AI completely ridiculous boosts on defense to try and make it seem like they're competent.

Paint defense sucks, it has for a LONG time. This is really nothing new.

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[itchyroll_51]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Much better example than the last one Sam.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are controlling Rondo during these cuts?


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Thanks Coach ! Hmmmm I would say i controlled Rondo in 80% of all made baskets via cuts. Some of them i got off my new space cutting technique where i actually control post player with the ball.

[itchyroll_51]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Paint defense has been non existent in 2k games for as long as I can remember.

I have hammered this issue home for YEARS, along with many other OSers and it never changes. It's why the AI scores more than half their points in the paint with no resistance.

It's worse now, after patch 7 it seems like the AI only attacks the paint and nothing else. I've noticed PGs going back to their old habits of using dribble move after dribble move to barrel into the paint with no resistance.

If that doesn't work, they'll zip an unguardable pass to the paint for yet again, an uncontested layup. Defense NEEDS to be the main focus for 2k18. Forget giving the offense more of an advantage, forget equipping all these HOF offensive badges to the point where the devs give the AI completely ridiculous boosts on defense to try and make it seem like they're competent.

Paint defense sucks, it has for a LONG time. This is really nothing new.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I am with you and I don't want them to get away with it every year anymore. I have done over 4 of these detailed stress test videos and 2K won't communicate with me at any level : (

People are very tired of the game this year because 2K have added so much new stuff to the offense while continuing to ignore the most basic of defensive issues. I am not saying this is easy to fix, but the paint defense has been like this for the entire PS4 2k generation. I have been getting these cuts to work at the same rate since 2K14. And this year for some reason (most likely better freelance offences and plays) I can actually get these cuts in the paint even more efficiently.... This paint defense issue has actually overtime gotten worse.....

[Impetuous65]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

DAMN SAM!!!... On this one they can't hit you with the "spam". Just pathetic and they keep talking about this place has turn "toxic" nah don't blame the people, the people are rational the game on the other hand. It has moments that make you say that was cool, but they are few and far between.

I have put this game after 7 patches. Picked up No Man's Sky after their foundation patch and the game is awesome.

[Thetruth9012]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Great videos as always.

I have the same experience since i remember.

It hurts you offline and online i almost destroyed 2k disc because on Myteam i had great D but guys still could pass to the paint and score with deandre jordan like 25 points using pumpfakes or just dunking on open lane no paint defense at all...

But what i hate the most is that i can use same play again and again and have open 3 with curry can you stress that too?


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[Impetuous65]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

What Pains me more than anything is the Gameplay designer stating that they have spoke to 28 NBA Teams and they specifically shared their defensive techniques with the NBA 2K Dev Team so we have programmed all those ACE defensive packages into the game, we have 6,000 adjustment on Defense that can be done by ACE, and if you would like to be the Architect, Turn ACE off and make those decisions yourself. Man that statement resonates with me and it pisses me off because none of it is true, just lip service.

[Goffs]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

If 2k basketball was only made in the late 80's or early 90's lol. Defense was far more physical than it is now. Sure they have old school NY and Detroit teams ingame but they sure don't play defense like their real life counterparts.

More physicality, better defensive AI awareness, no more forced back pedalling (every damn year this annoys me most), defensive players having the same movement as the offensive players (offball) These I think will help improve defense next year immensely.

Please let next year be THE year of defense.

[landman2069]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

This is so important to address. I have a real struggle to play online and have a great competitive game. It just doesn't feel fun to constantly watch which defender I should keep from screwing up. This is after spending most of my 2 minutes pregame trying to set adjustments to limit it while my opponent just has to sit and look at a stupid black screen instead of making their own adjustment. Then I get the opportunity to look at a black screen. Fun stuff for sure.

Then the 2k hype machine hits up twitter and stuff like that with useless free agent codes only to not say one thing about these issues. Just come out and say you are working on it and am a month away or we just can't patch this.

There's too much mystery about what they are trying to do with the game. They seem to be building a simulation game but wrecking that with arcade game animation.

[itchyroll_51]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

What Pains me more than anything is the Gameplay designer stating that they have spoke to 28 NBA Teams and they specifically shared their defensive techniques with the NBA 2K Dev Team so we have programmed all those ACE defensive packages into the game, we have 6,000 adjustment on Defense that can be done by ACE, and if you would like to be the Architect, Turn ACE off and make those decisions yourself. Man that statement resonates with me and it pisses me off because none of it is true, just lip service.

This isn't untrue, the ability to make defensive adjustments is pretty awesome this year. But all of that is kinda insignificant when the paint protect defense by the center is like this. None of those adjustments become necessary when the CPU refuses to protect the paint properly

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Sam I think your video is very helpful and will ultimately help to improve the game.

But allow me to provide a counterpoint. You've found a play the CPU cannot defend. We will keep finding them for years to come. This does not invalidate the game's defensive underpinnings.

By pure coincidence I played the Jazz in my MyLeague game last night. Here are 3 occasions when Jazz bigs smartly played off their men to protect the rim.

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Im sure you'll recall a couple of years ago when shotblocking was nearly completely absent from 2K.

We're 2 years into a project which is already showing off AI offensive and defensive decision making which has never been done in a sports video game. OG himself will tell you how far they've got to go.

At the moment, the AI is good at making the first decision. Whether it be a double, a switch, a rotation or whatever. The big area for improvement for 2K's defense is nailing those decisions that occur after the 1st one. Ive been banging on about how nobody rotates after a double has occured even 1 pass away. Im sure that will be dripfed in as ACE is developed.

The project of getting 5 guys to play on a string is multi-multi-multi year project. You've shown that the CPU is not able to adjust to certain plays in sets. The CPU does have interior defense; it's not broken.

A user who runs a realistic variety of plays in different sets will see a defense which does have some weaknesses, but also makes excellent reads and adapts often.

[Dyslexicphish]

Re: 2K17: Where Rondo can score 118 pts vs HOF CPU. Paint defense is broken ....

Great video Sam though I think the bigman AI is only part of the problem. Player movement and player collisions play a huge part in this too. Rondo's defender has a hard time staying with Rondo on every single play. Watch Exum at 2:27 of your video. Rondo completely leaves him because well...idk...he takes too long to change direction I guess?

After that Exum:

• Tries to steal the ball from Gibson a few times completely oblivious to the fact Rondo is cutting
• Gets sucked into a collision animation with Lopez
• Gets stuck on Wade trying to follow Rondo (this is something I've seen in 2k since 2k10 or so)
• Tries deny defense but gets stuck in a back peddle animation long enough for Rondo to get free.
• Gets stuck on Lopez.

I can keep going but you get the point. 2k has a lot to look at on the defensive end.