Stock/Malone

[Offballer4life]

I couldn't find the post(er) that advised me to run this pair.

Thank you. Yes. They MAKE you want to play fundamental patient ball.

Stockton is just spectacular. Everything else about him makes up for his height. I love his nice fast shot too.

Malone is Karl. A truck. A truck with a nice midrange. I put Rim Protector on him. His speed isn't really an issue. If someone is playing a stretch, get his truck *** back as fast as you can. He'll beat them up once the offense is set. I just shut down a Wallbrooker with Hak and Mailman front court. It takes an adjustment if you are used to speed at the 4. Again.....everything else about him makes up for it.

Really wish these 2 were a DD....but they play stellar together either way.

Thank you again. Fwiw..I started Stock over Magic, and Malone over LJ/Lucas.

[harryl]

Re: Stock/Malone

How are you running your offense with an old-school frontcourt of Malone and Hakeem, neither of which are fast for their position, and neither of which can shoot threes?

I'm not saying it cannot work, mind you. I'm just wondering what you're doing on offense to make it more effective for you. I've experimented with a frontcourt with only midrange shooting, at most, with 3-2, Flow, Horns, Triangle, etc. and it can work, but I'm always curious what others are doing.

[Bubba13laze]

Re: Stock/Malone

It was me. You're welcome. And yes, they are so damn good!!

[Offballer4life]

Re: Stock/Malone

How are you running your offense with an old-school frontcourt of Malone and Hakeem, neither of which are fast for their position, and neither of which can shoot threes?

I'm not saying it cannot work, mind you. I'm just wondering what you're doing on offense to make it more effective for you. I've experimented with a frontcourt with only midrange shooting, at most, with 3-2, Flow, Horns, Triangle, etc. and it can work, but I'm always curious what others are doing.

Nothing. Pace motion. I call manual stuff for Mailman

[ihoopfor206]

Re: Stock/Malone

Karl Malone plays like he played in the 80s. Just a bully with a mid range. His cards underrated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[harryl]

Re: Stock/Malone

Nothing. Pace motion. I call manual stuff for Mailman

So you run Pace Motion Cuts and call for manual P&R with Malone? Doesn't that then typically send Hakeem into a corner, from which his defender can then cheat off of him to help with the Stockton/Malone P&R, making it a 3 on 2 game for the defense?

I do a lot of 4- or 5- out high P&R with either Josh Smith or Ben Wallace at 4, but when my 5 is Sabonis and he can drain open corner threes at a ~50% clip, and so cannot be left open.

But I'm curious about what to do when I have Hakeem in at 5 and I'm using someone like Malone at 4, or even AD or someone else who isn't a knockdown 3-point shooter.

Especially if I'm running a PG who isn't a knockdown shooter from outside (or even elite at midrange).

[Bubba13laze]

Re: Stock/Malone

So you run Pace Motion Cuts and call for manual P&R with Malone? Doesn't that then typically send Hakeem into a corner, from which his defender can then cheat off of him to help with the Stockton/Malone P&R, making it a 3 on 2 game for the defense?

I do a lot of 4- or 5- out high P&R with either Josh Smith or Ben Wallace at 4, but when my 5 is Sabonis and he can drain open corner threes at a ~50% clip, and so cannot be left open.

But I'm curious about what to do when I have Hakeem in at 5 and I'm using someone like Malone at 4, or even AD or someone else who isn't a knockdown 3-point shooter.

Especially if I'm running a PG who isn't a knockdown shooter from outside (or even elite at midrange).

I use Stockton and Malone running in a basic 3 out 2 in freelance. I keep Stockton and Malone on the same side of the court and work a 2 man game. Feed the post and the freelance with cut Stockton to the basket in its own. Or kick it back out and call a manual pnr. The times I run pnr plays are usually for my wing players like pnr wing plays with king. When doing pnr with pg I prefer manual calls.

I disagree with using 2 bigs in a pace. Like you said, if you run pace or any 4 out and call a pnr for your 4 you get your 5 in the corner.. I prefer my 5 to stay down low to get offensive rebounds or to be open for a pass and dunk. Often if get Malone open on a roll to the basket the defender covering my 5 comes to help.. So I kick it to Malone then kick it to shaq for a dunk. Malone has good playmaking for a big too so his passing game is pretty solid.

[Blraob]

Re: Stock/Malone

Looking forward to trying this stockton and malone combo. Stockton looks like he could be fun

[Foldzy]

Re: Stock/Malone

Looking forward to trying this stockton and malone combo. Stockton looks like he could be fun

Honestly it looks pretty boring to me.... PNR PNR PNR... albeit they were the best all time at it, just not my cup o' tea

[Sumoparis]

Re: Stock/Malone

I do love the Mailman / Stock Duo, favorite players from my childhood. Nevertheless, I do love to run different plays than P'n'R

[Offballer4life]

Re: Stock/Malone

So you run Pace Motion Cuts and call for manual P&R with Malone? Doesn't that then typically send Hakeem into a corner, from which his defender can then cheat off of him to help with the Stockton/Malone P&R, making it a 3 on 2 game for the defense?

I do a lot of 4- or 5- out high P&R with either Josh Smith or Ben Wallace at 4, but when my 5 is Sabonis and he can drain open corner threes at a ~50% clip, and so cannot be left open.

But I'm curious about what to do when I have Hakeem in at 5 and I'm using someone like Malone at 4, or even AD or someone else who isn't a knockdown 3-point shooter.

Especially if I'm running a PG who isn't a knockdown shooter from outside (or even elite at midrange).

Not manual pnr. Manual plays. Actually, many of the plays that I use for my shooters have multiple scoring choices. I.e. the early portion of the play is meant for a 3/mid, but if I let it play out, one of my bigs has an opening.

PH24 is another type. Pass to Malone at elbow. Caller cuts to corner to set screen for shooter. Malone to shooter. And there are 2 different pick points to utilize. If I can't get a jumper, Malone is almost always open due to the scrambled D. Sometimes I just call it and And backdown.

For the most part, Pace is terrible for a player like him. But I call a number of plays out of it. ***if hakeem goes to the corner on a manual pnr...he will be open. Pass it to him and step inside the arc. Most people will give you the shot. If they don't, look under the hoop.

I probably should start running a different set, but it's what I'm used to. I would certainly listen to any suggestions.

[harryl]

Re: Stock/Malone

For the most part, Pace is terrible for a player like him. But I call a number of plays out of it. ***if hakeem goes to the corner on a manual pnr...he will be open. Pass it to him and step inside the arc. Most people will give you the shot. If they don't, look under the hoop.

I probably should start running a different set, but it's what I'm used to. I would certainly listen to any suggestions.

Thanks for all the description, that was interesting. What playbook are you using? (Have you ever tried running the Historic Jazz Playbook?)

Yeah, I think it would be better for you, when using Malone and not using a 5 who can shoot from 3, to switch from Pace to a different Freelance. Even though I have Sabonis to shoot from outside, I've been looking at various Freelances that would be conducive to making a 2-traditional-big (e.g. both only being able to shoot midrange at most, maybe one not at all) lineup work.

Specifically, I want to find something that will allow me to run Ben Wallace at 4 (or even at 2 or 3) and not at the 5. I agree with the general opinion that his height is too big of a problem when facing guys like Shaq or Wilt. But I really like the option of having him to lock down on an opponent's go-to Stretch 4, or even a 3, or a 2. And want to figure out plays that will utilize him best on offense by having him do off-ball screening and roll/cut to the basket.

As for freelances, it seems to me that the best ones to run with 2 bigs who can only shoot mids at best, are: one of the 3-2 variants, of course, but also Horns, Triangle, and Flow.

Flow and Triangle I think might be best as they are the most complex. The 3-2 and Horns freelances are pretty limited in actions/branches.

[billiethetree]

Re: Stock/Malone

Thanks for all the description, that was interesting. What playbook are you using? (Have you ever tried running the Historic Jazz Playbook?)

Yeah, I think it would be better for you, when using Malone and not using a 5 who can shoot from 3, to switch from Pace to a different Freelance. Even though I have Sabonis to shoot from outside, I've been looking at various Freelances that would be conducive to making a 2-traditional-big (e.g. both only being able to shoot midrange at most, maybe one not at all) lineup work.

Specifically, I want to find something that will allow me to run Ben Wallace at 4 (or even at 2 or 3) and not at the 5. I agree with the general opinion that his height is too big of a problem when facing guys like Shaq or Wilt. But I really like the option of having him to lock down on an opponent's go-to Stretch 4, or even a 3, or a 2. And want to figure out plays that will utilize him best on offense by having him do off-ball screening and roll/cut to the basket.

As for freelances, it seems to me that the best ones to run with 2 bigs who can only shoot mids at best, are: one of the 3-2 variants, of course, but also Horns, Triangle, and Flow.

Flow and Triangle I think might be best as they are the most complex. The 3-2 and Horns freelances are pretty limited in actions/branches.

I always see Horns listed as a freelance, but can never find it in that menu. Help?

[Offballer4life]

Re: Stock/Malone

Thanks for all the description, that was interesting. What playbook are you using? (Have you ever tried running the Historic Jazz Playbook?)

Yeah, I think it would be better for you, when using Malone and not using a 5 who can shoot from 3, to switch from Pace to a different Freelance. Even though I have Sabonis to shoot from outside, I've been looking at various Freelances that would be conducive to making a 2-traditional-big (e.g. both only being able to shoot midrange at most, maybe one not at all) lineup work.

Specifically, I want to find something that will allow me to run Ben Wallace at 4 (or even at 2 or 3) and not at the 5. I agree with the general opinion that his height is too big of a problem when facing guys like Shaq or Wilt. But I really like the option of having him to lock down on an opponent's go-to Stretch 4, or even a 3, or a 2. And want to figure out plays that will utilize him best on offense by having him do off-ball screening and roll/cut to the basket.

As for freelances, it seems to me that the best ones to run with 2 bigs who can only shoot mids at best, are: one of the 3-2 variants, of course, but also Horns, Triangle, and Flow.

Flow and Triangle I think might be best as they are the most complex. The 3-2 and Horns freelances are pretty limited in actions/branches.

I'll give triangle and flow.
Nets pb. Never tried jazz historic.

I always see Horns listed as a freelance, but can never find it in that menu. Help?

Unless it only shows with certain pbs, it's there.

[harryl]

Re: Stock/Malone

I always see Horns listed as a freelance, but can never find it in that menu. Help?

It's in there. "Horns Set," and is on one of the final pages.