Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

[harryl]

I've been on the fence about completing Historic Spurs for Manu. Normally wouldn't think twice about Manu, because of his low defensive ratings and strength. And general lack of athleticism one expects from a Diamond guard.

But he's been on my radar ever since he was made a Duo with Sabonis.

Have played Manu's Current Silver a few times, with his duo partner Current Silver Luis Scola, in Challenges. Silver Manu gets 88 Ball Control but still feels much more responsive than one would imagine, and more explosive than his 76 Acceleration would suggest.

Have had his Handles Emerald version since it was released but think I *never*played him until tonight.

Wow. The Handles has 92 BC but still has 76 Acceleration (86 Speed w/Ball), but feels really crisp and responsive.

He explodes off the dribble, has lightning quick transition between moves. And just generally feels like he's doing what you want more than most players, even quick guards.

I usually find it iffy to try and do stuff like stepback and sidestep jumpers, or pull the stepbacks and sidestep dribble moves, but it's really easy with Manu. Whatever is the tolerance for getting timing of stick/button commands, it's just easier with Manu.

He's good enough that I can beat the CPU off the dribble, one-on-one, without a screen, and from a dead standstill (not at a run, with momentum against a standstill defender).

So now I'm really interested in Diamond Manu. Even if there are better players for less, he's just fun to play.

Anybody have him and have strong impressions, especially in relation to other guards? I think the only other guy I've used who really feels as snappy and quick is Diamond D-Rose.

[anditbeg1ns]

Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

Why not? I don't know about PC prices but I completed this set for only 60k on XB1. I suggest you do it now rather than later when Sabonis becomes more ordinary.

As far as Manu goes, I'm not overly impressed with him. His dribble moves are good, not great. He could dunk but not explosive. I use a lot of euro steps and floaters in transitions and they're quite effective. On defense he could get bullied by stronger guards like Butler or Vince. My biggest gripe though is his low stamina and slow release. His 97 3's does not feel like it. But if you have no issues with his release at lower tier, then this might not be a big deal for you.


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[Scooby Doo]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

I personally really enjoy him. He is super fast (buy a speed w ball shoe for 250 MT and it's 98), and his dribbling isn't perfect but I love his speed boost because it doesn't even look like he's dribbling so nobody is ever ready for the sudden burst. His release is cash for me, similar to Gail Goodrich and his defense isn't exceptional but it's not as bad as someone like James Harden. I would get him because he's super cheap!


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[harryl]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

Nothing is cheap on PC. Even if you one got all the cards at their cheapest point, Historic Spurs would still probably cost well over 100K. I think 150K is about right for total cost.

Which isn't even that much. Back when MT was dirt cheap, Historic Collections cost many hundreds of thousands, maybe 1M or even more.

Historic Kings, I think, probably costs 200K or more to complete on PC.

My plan is to just get the pieces and leave collection unlocked. The one I really want to finish is Pacers for Diamond Artest, so if I can still complete that, then I'll probably lock in for Manu (and Moncrief, maybe also All-Around Drexler).

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

I completed his set the day the set came out (just needed the Elliott, and I had sold the Rodman when I saw an opportunity to double my MT one night), and I've used him for about five games so far. His defense is better than his ratings would indicate. On offense, I've used him mainly as a spot up shooter. I haven't gotten his release down, so he's been garbage for me from three. I haven't purposely tried to use him on offense though, so take that with a grain of salt.

[harryl]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

I completed his set the day the set came out (just needed the Elliott, and I had sold the Rodman when I saw an opportunity to double my MT one night), and I've used him for about five games so far. His defense is better than his ratings would indicate. On offense, I've used him mainly as a spot up shooter. I haven't gotten his release down, so he's been garbage for me from three. I haven't purposely tried to use him on offense though, so take that with a grain of salt.

My suggestion would be to try to get very comfortable with dribbling with him. Use him a lot as a secondary ball handler, particularly if you pair him with a point guard who can be a really nice catch & shoot shooter. Heck...play him at point guard if the defensive matchup allows for it.

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

My suggestion would be to try to get very comfortable with dribbling with him. Use him a lot as a secondary ball handler, particularly if you pair him with a point guard who can be a really nice catch & shoot shooter. Heck...play him at point guard if the defensive matchup allows for it.

So far, I've kept him on my second unit with Magic at PG. That unit runs either fast break, or Magic is just wrecking the opposing PG in the paint. If I switched Manu to my first unit, he'd be paired with PD West, and I don't know that I've used a better shooter in this game than West. I'll definitely try that out.

I find it interesting that you're using Emerald Manu and shilling for the Diamond. All along, I used the Emerald Parker and shilled for the Diamond. I like Gail and all, but I think if I had it to do over, I would have taken Tony just because I love using him. He'd be my third string PG, but I would look forward to using him.

So my advice to you is to finish the set for Manu ASAP. I got Sapphire Eddie Jones for my challenge squad and have loved using him so much that he's my 3rd string wing (I have a starting five, a backup five, and then a PG, C and a wing as my last three in case someone needs a rest) on my best squad now. After taking a break from MyTeam, I've come back realizing that it's all about enjoying the guys you're using moreso than using the best cards you have.

[Bubba13laze]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

Diamond Manu intrigued me earlier in the year. Before the tbt collection dropped I had all but Sean Elliot and was about to get him. Ended up selling off all the players, got 100k for brickowski and 50k for rodman.

His playmaking looks great my plan was to have him handle the ball a lot because I was running west at the 1 who I found more of a shoot first pg.

Ultimately I decided against it because of his defense. But it's interesting to hear people are saying his D is quite good.

[harryl]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

So far, I've kept him on my second unit with Magic at PG. That unit runs either fast break, or Magic is just wrecking the opposing PG in the paint. If I switched Manu to my first unit, he'd be paired with PD West, and I don't know that I've used a better shooter in this game than West. I'll definitely try that out.

I think he makes a lot more sense paired with West. And not so much with Magic, for obvious reasons. (If matchups on other side allow for this, of course. And also with the admission that one can run unexpected P&R between a secondary ballhandler and Magic, to mix things up.)

I find it interesting that you're using Emerald Manu and shilling for the Diamond.

Well, just to make sure it's clear, I don't have Diamond Manu (yet). I'm just assuming that he's even better than the Emerald...I mean, he obviously is, in general, but I mean specifically with his dribbling.

I am wondering with people's impressions of Diamond Manu's dribbling is, especially in comparison to other elite ball handlers.

I think I played the Handles TP once or twice, but I'll try him again on my my budget Challenge teams.

I'm now running through a ton of different guys in my collection, trying to figure out who's fun and who I'll keep, to save them from the post-PD-West-acquisition sell-off.

So my advice to you is to finish the set for Manu ASAP.

Mmkay. I'm basically there. I just need the most expensive one in the Collection, Vinny del Negro. And only because I want to try to pay close to what I've seen as low price on the card.

After taking a break from MyTeam, I've come back realizing that it's all about enjoying the guys you're using moreso than using the best cards you have.

I think that's definitely the case. Either most fun, or biggest sentimental historic favorites, theme teams, etc.

His playmaking looks great my plan was to have him handle the ball a lot because I was running west at the 1 who I found more of a shoot first pg.

Ultimately I decided against it because of his defense. But it's interesting to hear people are saying his D is quite good.

I would imagine his D is okay to solid. But I don't know.

And you'll see in the above conversation, if opponent is not running really big guys, I think PD West and Ginobili can definitely make sense.

Although...if one really wants to be picky, they don't. PD West's big differentiator is not so much the elite 3-point shooting, which is now pretty common, but his HoF Mid-Range Deadeye. Manu's differentiator is his ballhandling and HoF Acrobat.

To take fullest advantage of both, they both need to be ball-dominant.

That new Diamond Jimmer, taking defense out of the equation, might be fun to run with someone like Manu, if playing Manu at 2. Basically use Manu as the PG and Jimmer as the off-guard running around screens.

Which is to say: from my perspective, Manu is a point guard and one is slotting him in at 1 or 2 depending on defensive matchups.

[jyoung]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

It doesn't make sense to lock in any of the historic collections at this point in the game's life cycle.

Every time there's a new event card or a new theme pack that's released, the historic reward cards become more and more outdated.

Maybe if you already have diamond Sabonis, then it might be worth getting diamond Ginobili, but I wouldn't recommend doing it, otherwise.

I've used Ginobili three or four times this year in Blacktop (and recorded one of those matches), and he's just another guard IMO -- there's nothing special or amazing about him. The hitch at the top of his jumpshot is also very difficult to time online with the latency.

<iframe width="540" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X-hxzpQsGNk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[harryl]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

It doesn't make sense to lock in any of the historic collections at this point in the game's life cycle...

Yeah, I have Diamond Sabonis and the Duo was what made me take a look at Diamond Manu. Once I took a look at Manu, then I went back and played with his Handles Emerald for a few games and his handling made me very interested.

I don't think he measures up with other Diamonds, and even though the Spurs collection is not all that expensive, even on a bang-for-the-MT, he might not be there. Probably not.

But I've been finding him really fun. I've already admitted to myself that getting him is not really MT-logical.

Kind of funny that you think his shot is hard to time, since in the video you link, you shot 4-6 from outside with him. (But, yeah, in Blacktop.)

[roboas]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

If anyone runs with Sabonis, this is a no-brainer. Even without him, I think people are missing something beyond the stats - Manu's annimations and his blue badges. His crossover move creates as much lateral separation as anyone in the game. It's pretty comical to watch, you'd never expect Tim Hardaway / AI moves out of Manu, but he's got them. His layup animations are also unique and allow you to score in the paint. He can also throw it down, I've postered Yao many times with Manu (without the posterizer badge). Manu has the best 4 blue badges you can have outside of floor general / D anchor. Sparkplug is my personal favorite, and it mean's he'll make big plays after play resumes. This could be a driving layup, a jumper, or a steal on defense. After playing several games with him, you'll see that he has a tendency to make big plays on defense that you wouldn't expect anyone else to make, and he does it consistently.

[jyoung]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

Kind of funny that you think his shot is hard to time, since in the video you link, you shot 4-6 from outside with him. (But, yeah, in Blacktop.)

Any shot you take in 2K17 that isn't a dunk/layup or a perfect green release jumper is a bad shot.

And due to Manu's hitchy release animation, I rarely get greens with him from three. This year, I've used all three versions of Manu (current silver with dynamic duo boost, emerald handles, diamond reward) and have experienced the same problem with his shot animation.

[roboas]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

Any shot you take in 2K17 that isn't a dunk/layup or a perfect green release jumper is a bad shot.

And due to Manu's hitchy release animation, I rarely get greens with him from three. This year, I've used all three versions of Manu (current silver with dynamic duo boost, emerald handles, diamond reward) and have experienced the same problem with his shot animation.

His shot has a hitch. But if he isn't contested, it is easy to learn. So don't count on taking contested shots with him. In the paint it's a whole different story. He's launching floaters or doing Euros from anywhere inside the FT line in the heaviest of traffic. I think what people are missing here is that he's most effective as the ball handler. Look at his passing / handling / speed attributes, and then compare them to your PG of choice - Manu is right up there with the best of them, but his crazy animations are what puts him over the top. So he's going to create space and drive to the hoop, the defense will collapse, and then he will kick it out to an open shooter, or if he has a lane, he'll launch a long range layup that will usually go in.

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: Diamond Manu Ginobili...Manu in General

It doesn't make sense to lock in any of the historic collections at this point in the game's life cycle.

Every time there's a new event card or a new theme pack that's released, the historic reward cards become more and more outdated.

Not everyone wants to run the exact same team that everyone else runs. Also, there's a lot more to this game than atts. Ammy Ray Allen got everyone's panties wet, but nobody uses him because his animations are garbage.

Life cycle is irrelevant - all of these guys are going to be worthless in a few months, as well as your MT. If someone wants to spend the MT to build a card they want to use, there is absolutely zero reason why they shouldn't. You aren't given a sum of MT at the beginning of the game to last you through the end, and it's not as if you can't always make more.