Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

[Dione2014]

Here's the thing. I've been playing basketball for 20 years. I understand the on court dynamics of shooting and defending shooters. The problem with shooting in 2K is that it has an exaggerated sense of what shots should be going in, and what shots should be missing (meaning it's too black and white).

Shooting percentages are a funny sometimes in how things are calculated for stat tracking and the numbers produced by way of them. Shooting in a gym, you often see good shooters hitting 80 out of 100 of their shots. This is because these are wide open shots with nobody aggressively looking to contest(obvious, ikr). If a guy get's that kind of shot in a game setting, 8/10 times it's money (in the gym shot)

Here's the kicker. There's very rarely a true open shot in a real life game. Guys rarely leave even average shooters more than 6 feet of space. tracking suggest that 4-6 feet is open, and 6 feet and beyond is wide open. This is where stat tracking gives an unrealistic sense of what's happening on the floor 6 feet is not open! What's normally happening when a defender is standing 6 feet away form a good shooter is a hard close out. This is way more effective than what it seems, especially with all the strength, speed, and athletic ability of NBA players. So now suddenly curry, who will knock down 85-90 out of 100 of his open shots in a practice gym, Will now be only making 45-55 out of 100 on what is considered to be wide open (6 feet and beyond) according to player tracking.

With that said. 2K really needs to fix/overhaul defense so that they can make shooting operate the way it should. There are way too many "in the gym" shots in this game. Shot's that bad shooters would be able to make in real life. That needs to really be tightened up. This is why before the shooting update teams would always shoot around 60 percent. Too many open shots, and not enough contested ones falling. I just want the best out of 2K. I just want the franchise to continue as one that is focused on a true sim experience.

[VAWereWolf65]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

At this point, I think it's too late in the year to still be making changes to the game.

But, in 2k18, I think they need to significantly increase the amount of contested shots that go in and decrease the open ones

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

At this point, I think it's too late in the year to still be making changes to the game.

But, in 2k18, I think they need to significantly increase the amount of contested shots that go in and decrease the open ones

As long as that increase doesn't include inside shots. They go in at a crazy high rate contested.

[Dione2014]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

At this point, I think it's too late in the year to still be making changes to the game.

But, in 2k18, I think they need to significantly increase the amount of contested shots that go in and decrease the open ones

Yeah that's mainly why i made this post, for NBA 2K18. It's far too late to be worried about 2K17 now. I agree though 100 percent.

[Caelumfang]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

At this point, I think it's too late in the year to still be making changes to the game.

But, in 2k18, I think they need to significantly increase the amount of contested shots that go in and decrease the open ones

Sounds good on paper, but if you know this community like I do, contested shots will bottom out again because people will start whining to Mike saying "OMG PEOPLE ARE SPLASHING IN MY FACE! WHAT'S THE POINT OF DEFENSE?! NERF PLZ!"

[DakkoN]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

The defense mechanics aren't good.. But the thing is, player defense isn't good either. Swipe, swipe swipe.. Double team for no reason, full court press for no reason.. Literally full court press all game and never stop even though it's almost the sole reason the team is losing by 30 because they're getting blown by, defense has to help, corner 3 every single play. Players and teams that are fundamentally sound on defense make for respectable shooting percentages.

[mangiac]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Here's the thing. I've been playing basketball for 20 years. I understand the on court dynamics of shooting and defending shooters. The problem with shooting in 2K is that it has an exaggerated sense of what shots should be going in, and what shots should be missing (meaning it's too black and white).

Shooting percentages are a funny sometimes in how things are calculated for stat tracking and the numbers produced by way of them. Shooting in a gym, you often see good shooters hitting 80 out of 100 of their shots. This is because these are wide open shots with nobody aggressively looking to contest(obvious, ikr). If a guy get's that kind of shot in a game setting, 8/10 times it's money (in the gym shot)

Here's the kicker. There's very rarely a true open shot in a real life game. Guys rarely leave even average shooters more than 6 feet of space. tracking suggest that 4-6 feet is open, and 6 feet and beyond is wide open. This is where stat tracking gives an unrealistic sense of what's happening on the floor 6 feet is not open! What's normally happening when a defender is standing 6 feet away form a good shooter is a hard close out. This is way more effective than what it seems, especially with all the strength, speed, and athletic ability of NBA players. So now suddenly curry, who will knock down 85-90 out of 100 of his open shots in a practice gym, Will now be only making 45-55 out of 100 on what is considered to be wide open (6 feet and beyond) according to player tracking.

With that said. 2K really needs to fix/overhaul defense so that they can make shooting operate the way it should. There are way too many "in the gym" shots in this game. Shot's that bad shooters would be able to make in real life. That needs to really be tightened up. This is why before the shooting update teams would always shoot around 60 percent. Too many open shots, and not enough contested ones falling. I just want the best out of 2K. I just want the franchise to continue as one that is focused on a true sim experience.

I understand where you are coming from, but your thinking is flawed when comparing open shots in a gym to open shots in a game. Players who are making 80+ of 100 shots at practice are shooting 100 consecutive shots with someone feeding them. It's very easy to get in rhythm this way.

I know of coaches who will not give players the green light in game until they can hit 70 of 100 shots from a particular area in the practice gym.

[FixEverything2k]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

At this point, I think it's too late in the year to still be making changes to the game.

But, in 2k18, I think they need to significantly increase the amount of contested shots that go in and decrease the open ones

I agree but I feel like regardless of what happens 2k will eventually patch it like they always have and it will break again.

[ForeverVersatile]

Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Yesterday I had this guy consistently hit leaners with Steph and I'm like why is the bull**** going in. Shooting definitely doesn't make sense in the gam,e they should try another method starting with removing all badges from the game.


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[BBallcoach]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Yup the easiest way to fix shooting is fix the defense. Try playing a game with no defensive adjustments. Just everything set to Auto. The defensive AI is atrocious. It's unplayable if you want a true sim experience.

[Dione2014]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I understand where you are coming from, but your thinking is flawed when comparing open shots in a gym to open shots in a game. Players who are making 80+ of 100 shots at practice are shooting 100 consecutive shots with someone feeding them. It's very easy to get in rhythm this way.

I know of coaches who will not give players the green light in game until they can hit 70 of 100 shots from a particular area in the practice gym.

No i agree about rhythm. I forgot to mention i in the post, but that's actually big factor. That's why you can let guys get into a rhythm or else you get a guy like Klay throwing up 37 point quarters and 60 point games.

[Master Yoda]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

they should try another method starting with removing all badges from the game.

Yes, a million times yes.

Not all of them of course, I believe some of them should stay. Limtless range or corner specialist are flavorful and sensible additions IMO. And some are borderline essential, like LDD or Dimer (unless of course shooter's accuracy correlates with the passer's stats, idk).

But those that directly overlap with attributes should go. I always remove Catch and Shoot Hustle Rebounder and the Deadeyes from almost every player in my personal rosters. Those 4 especially make no sense to me.

I also remove PnR Maestro, PnRoller/Popper, One-Man fast break etc.

There's literally a stat called contested 3pt shot. What's the point of Deadeye? Even more egregious is Rebounding. smh

[stillfeelme]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I have looked at a lot of this over the last few years. The game is trying to please an audience that is so wide that small changes in game play mechanics can swing the game from being too arcade to a level of Sim that most pick and play types don't want and don't realize.

• You have a large majority of people that think that a majority of shooters should shoot over 50% when wide open when data says that is not the case. Some believe their "stick skill" should make players play shoot better than their ratings.

• Then you have a large majority of players that over value the strength of a contested shot. "I have played perfect defense why can they still hit shots". I say this every contest is not the same in real life.

• This ties with contesting but it is extremely hard to contest in the NBA without fouling I am talking tight defense like 0-2 ft of contesting particularly jumpers. Users want "stick skills" on defense to lock some one up but the reality is there are only a handful of defenders in the league who are allowed to play physical and have the on ball defense foot speed to take advantage of it.

• Realistic contesting I mean the majority of contests for jumpers in the NBA are in the 2-4Ft distance away from the player. This is the typical contest that happens for jumpers. You really can't even get in players face space as what we think without fouling, giving the player space to land etc. Look at NBA.com for stats they break it down by team. Most teams don't even shoot that many 3's with contests tighter than that.

Just to give you some data the Blazers led the league in 2PT jumper shot very tightly 0-2ft shots taken in the regular season with 2.4 Attempts per game for 35% success rate. The Knicks lead the league in tight contested jumpers taken per game 12.6 att./game for 41% success

• Players routinely don't follow game plan in real life and double when they shouldn't or miss a rotation get lazy, tired etc. The game needs to allow this in certain instances but it is hard to implement to make it realistic without at times taking the user out of control.

• This is my opinion but I think each shooting rating should have a variation window tied to that specific player even when you have excellent release. The probability of getting close to 100% accuracy should be very low. The game has to have this for balancing purposes and for mastering release points. I don't know if you know about statistics but shooting should behave somewhat like a probability curve. The good shooters have a higher average and very little variation below or above the average as long as you get the timing down. The bad shooters should have lower average and much more variation but the distribution should be skewed to the lower end. This would allow for a "breakout game" from a bad shooter but it would happen rarely

Over the course of a season your Marcus Smart's Dennis Shroeder's types occasionally get "on" for a game but those are mainly outliers and variation. I don't think we as a user should be able to consistently "master" a release to a point I can almost make Smart a good shooter beyond his ratings, that is why I say we need some shooting window limits like % limit lower limit % and upper limit. If the game was coded like this it would play much more like a true NBA game.


This is my last thing can't believe I typed all of this out. With all of this I think the on ball defense would need to be tweaked so that you are could be punished for playing too tight on players meaning you need to gap slashers that can shoot and drive and dribble. To get a realistic contesting scenarios. Playing defense is hard in the NBA less physical

[Rsnake21]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

The defense mechanics aren't good.. But the thing is, player defense isn't good either. Swipe, swipe swipe.. Double team for no reason, full court press for no reason.. Literally full court press all game and never stop even though it's almost the sole reason the team is losing by 30 because they're getting blown by, defense has to help, corner 3 every single play. Players and teams that are fundamentally sound on defense make for respectable shooting percentages.

This 100%. It's why you cannot have a true sim game because then you would have to dramatically increase % percentage of contested shots made and nobody wants to play great d and still get faced. So the solution is punish bad d(making open shots easier) reward good d (very low contested makes). I'm a sharp and if someone d's me up I'm not making anything but if im wide open that should be almost auto if I've mastered my shot. There is no skill gap if it's sim oriented

[cablexdeadpool]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

This 100%. It's why you cannot have a true sim game because then you would have to dramatically increase % percentage of contested shots made and nobody wants to play great d and still get faced. So the solution is punish bad d(making open shots easier) reward good d (very low contested makes). I'm a sharp and if someone d's me up I'm not making anything but if im wide open that should be almost auto if I've mastered my shot. There is no skill gap if it's sim oriented

There is a skill gap if it is sim.

It is called having variation in your offensive game.

If I can't hit a jump shot, I drive. If I can't drive, I post up. If I can't post up, I'll pop out. If I can't pop out, I'll cut.

Unless you are a LDD, people should be able to make contested shots over you every once in a while.

Now if you are an LDD and people hitting jumpshots all over you, it's a problem.