Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Hi everyone, I'm asking the question above to see if anyone has noticed anything similar.

I am trying to determine how QB awareness affects user-controlled QBs during a game. To test things out, I edited Tom Brady's awareness down to 0, and took him into a practice session. While his throws were still strong and accurate, I found that the pass defense was unbelievably good. I could still complete passes as long as I got someone wide open (which was not often), but if a defender was anywhere near the intended receiver it was a knockdown or INT every time.

Next, I edited his awareness back up to 99 and went back into practice against the same team (Colts). Sure enough, at 99 awareness the usual pass defense problems reemerged. Receivers were open almost all the time, and DBs rarely made a play on the ball.

Now this is a very small sample size. I only ran about 50 plays with each rating, so this may be an anomaly. I'm posting just to ask if anyone has seen anything like it.

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Very interesting fine

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Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

interezting tezt....kinda wish the Awr of user controlled players was affected in another manner....IE...low Awr rb thats being controlled runs into blocks more offten..where as a high awr has a tendencey to find and drift towards holes in the defense more easily.

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Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

It would explain why highly rated QBs are always completing 85-100% of passes every game, while lower rated QBs have incompletions, off target throws, etc.

I can’t believe no one has ever thought to test this before. Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me


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Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

I believe this is a known fact that was confirmed a few Maddens ago. High QB awareness rating is replicated in the game by having the pass coverage be weaker.

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

This is how the game implements "defensive awareness"...

The higher the QB AWR the "lower" the "defensive awareness" plays...

The reverse is the inverse...

It also works this way for the human player...

When you play as Tom Brady (for example) the passing windows are bigger and the pass rush is weaker...

Put in the Pat's 2nd or 3rd string guy and those windows become noticeably smaller and the rush heats up...

It's the primary reason I always begin CFM with a rookie QB...

Game is MUCH more challenging when your QB's AWR is the 60's...

Lastly:

Back in the PS2 days there used to be a slider dedicated to defensive awareness, which would come in quite handy with the current game issues...

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

This needs to be changed if so. There has to be a better way to implement this. Or different way

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Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Is it possible to edit HUM Qb awareness? Dumb question but I've never tried.


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Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

So in essence if I edit every qbs awareness to 50 the defense would play more true to their ratings?

The problem with madden for a long time has been too many rating effect too many other things.

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Possibly, but I feel like you'd be improving the defense at the expense of QB play

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Like I said, the effect was easier to control when there was a defensive awareness slider...simply returning that would (seemingly) be relatively simple and effective...

Yup, I did this last year...

I was using Cody Kessler and would dial back his AWR a couple / few points before each season, so his progression was present, but slower / minimal...

I'd start him around 60 and cap yearly progression at around 3, so it would take 5 seasons to get to 75...

Once they got into the mid to high 70's the game got pretty easy for me, so...

Good in theory, but I've never tried that myself and am not aware of any tests of that nature being run on the forum...

If you give that a shot, let us know how it played out...

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

I don't know if the developers ever confirmed it, but I always believed this to be the case. I don't know the mechanics of it, but receivers get open more the better the QB is.

It is not too dissimilar from the way route running works. That attribute doesn't affect the WR in any way, what it does is affect the DB. It makes the DB react slower and get fooled.

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Now that I think about it, it would also have an effect on run defense...

So, although that would really tighten up the pass defense, it would likely make the run defense unrealistically OP, in the process...

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

Could be a result of "unintended consequence", so who knows...

Anyway:

Good point on the WR thing...

It also has an effect on HBs...

The higher the AWR, the bigger the hole / the longer it stays open / the slower the defense reacts...

Regardless if you're USER or playing defense versus CPU...

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

have not seen this...kizer threw for over 400 yards on me...at 55% with 1 td and 4 ints in my franchise game against the browns with my sliders....

i don't think it's a thing


then again...i use my sliders on pro to reduce the madden BS put in at higher difficulty levels...so maybe that's why

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Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

I can only say with confidence that it affects the user, I haven't noticed whether it affects the AI team.

I noticed that whenever my starting QB got injured and was replaced by my backup, route that were creating separation were no longer doing so, and defenders were jumping routes.

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

I'm talking about AP Default (or thereabouts)...

Once you start raising or dropping levels and / or sliders the algorithm has to do a lot of "extra calculation" and "your milage may vary"...

For instance, it's been confirmed by a former EA employee and long time forum member (adembrowski) that both Pro and AM are deliberately coded to include a "rubberband AI" to benefit the USER in the former and the CPU in the latter...

Although your Kizer experience is counter intuitive to that, it still is likely a byproduct of "there's a whole lot going on" in your set...

In your version one, the CPU ACC is at 100, which is going to make them not just accurate but brilliant...

The ACC slider has WAY more AWR tied to it, than ACC...

And in your version two (with QB ACC at 50) your pass reaction is so low that it's going to benefit the CPU QB...

Despite the jacked PCV...

There's no way to isolate the effects of AWR in those scenarios, IMHO...

:)

Lastly, there's "universal tilt" on Pro and AM...

50 / 50 plays more like 45 / 55 on AM and more like 55 / 45 on Pro...or thereabouts...

If you recall, the interface on those levels used to be 25 / 75 on AM and 75 / 25 on Pro in the PS2 era...

When you toggled the difficulty the sliders changed to those wide ranges automatically...

Since then, new code has been layered over old code, so some of that is likely still in the mix...

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

I never really dabble in sliders bc I tend to get caught up in slideritis and can't enjoy the game anymore but a quick question for you. If I set the game to all pro then plugged in default all madden sliders, would it make the game harder while cutting back on some of the all madden bs? Or would there Ben too much calculating going on under the hood?

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

What do you mean by "Default All Madden" sliders?

The current 50 / 50 would have no effect and the former 25 / 75 would likely be "overcompensating" because they went to 50 / 50 a few years back...

So there's layers of stuff going on there between the old and new slider interface values...

As I said, the way the game is coded now (over that old code) makes it play closer to 45 / 55 on AM, so MAYBE plugging that in as a starting point would work?

I've never tried it, so although it's "good in theory", who knows...

If you decide to try anything like that, please let us know how it plays...

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

um...i have never in my life put qb accuracy at 100...and this year it has always been 50...

those are not version 1 and version 2 of my sliders. what you are looking at is my main menu sliders and my CFM sliders, as main menu sliders have an affect in CFM. because I am on pro, i zero out all user slides and max out all cpu to help balance it out...the CFM sliders are posted below that and are 100% different.




and for that reason...your theory is out. (shark tank reference, yes)

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

We used to have
Pass rush slider
Run back ability
D aware
I'm sure I'm missing some
Heck, why not add a QB tuck & run slider (0-100), so each qb could be tuned. Or just bring back the options for sometimes, never, often.

Re: Poor pass defense tied to QB awareness?
 

My bad, since MM sliders don't work in consort with CFM sliders (though settings, levels and penalties do), I wrongly assumed that they were two different versions...

ONLY things that are tied to your profile (settings / levels / penalties) "layer" over CFM settings...

JoshC1977 and I have messed with all that extensively for the past few years...

If you don't believe me, ask him...

Regardless, you're taxing and maxing the engine in a way that's not going to lend itself to an environment where you can quantify what AWR is or isn't doing...IMHO...

All that matters is that you're happy with your results, so have at it!

:)