its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

[ggsimmonds]

You guys noticed this right?

Run a test yourself if you are in an offline franchise. Start your backup QB for a game, and notice how the pressure gets there quicker.

The quality of your QB impacts the pass protection.

[timhere1970]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

When i have a big lead in the 4th i sub out all my starters with 6 or more years of exerience. I assumed the bad line play was due to my backup center having lower awareness but you are probably right. It is madden so they will always try a gimmick over making players play to their ratings. With all the complaining last year about how good backu qb's were they probably just tuned the line to play like crap instead of fixing the issue. If you notice pre release they talked about backups playing worse a lot. They always said backups, never bad qb's will play worse.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

When i have a big lead in the 4th i sub out all my starters with 6 or more years of exerience. I assumed the bad line play was due to my backup center having lower awareness but you are probably right. It is madden so they will always try a gimmick over making players play to their ratings. With all the complaining last year about how good backu qb's were they probably just tuned the line to play like crap instead of fixing the issue. If you notice pre release they talked about backups playing worse a lot. They always said backups, never bad qb's will play worse.

I'm pretty sure the QB's awareness modifies the blocking, so they are playing to their ratings in that sense. I don't think it has anything to do with whether a QB is a backup or not.

Attributes and QB ratings are a weak point in Madden, the things that Madden uses to rate QBs isn't representative of what separates NFL QBs.

[SolidSquid]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

You guys noticed this right?

Run a test yourself if you are in an offline franchise. Start your backup QB for a game, and notice how the pressure gets there quicker.

The quality of your QB impacts the pass protection.

Which is why madden will never be sim. I could start the highest five pass blocking ol in he game but if I start a rookie qb with low awareness the line suffers

[timhere1970]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

Joe Thomas is not going to become a bad blocker just because a bad qb comes into the game or for that matter if his center has low awareness. It's the thousand things like this that have been put into the game over the years as modifiers to gameplay that have not even been kept track of that prevents a good game being made. Yet, they continue to do it instead of making a new game or actually fixing problems.

[artofperfection]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

While a poor QB does not have a direct affect on the o-line in the NFL, the QB is usually in charge or calling out or modifying protection schemes.


I appreciate that a poor QB is harder to win with. Most poor QB's take more sacks, throw under more pressure, etc. I think they've done much better this year of making a 70ovr QB feel like a struggle to be good.

[Gosens6]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

While a poor QB does not have a direct affect on the o-line in the NFL, the QB is usually in charge or calling out or modifying protection schemes.


I appreciate that a poor QB is harder to win with. Most poor QB's take more sacks, throw under more pressure, etc. I think they've done much better this year of making a 70ovr QB feel like a struggle to be good.

No, what they’ve done is make your offensive line play exponentially worse because you have a lower rated QB at the helm.

The QB should make bad decisions, errant throws, etc.

A superior offensive line shouldn’t all of a sudden become a cake walk because a low rated QB is in the game.

All of a sudden elite blockers are going to forget to block because they have a low rated guy under center? No way. That low rated QB should still get the same kind of protection, but make more mistakes because of his inability to be good/elite.

With all the talk about needing to put together a good offensive line to stay competitive, this is just another example of things not working they way they say it will.

I’ve noticed this issue for a LONG time.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[artofperfection]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

No, what they’ve done is make your offensive line play exponentially worse because you have a lower rated QB at the helm.

The QB should make bad decisions, errant throws, etc.

A superior offensive line shouldn’t all of a sudden become a cake walk because a low rated QB is in the game.

All of a sudden elite blockers are going to forget to block because they have a low rated guy under center? No way. That low rated QB should still get the same kind of protection, but make more mistakes because of his inability to be good/elite.

With all the talk about needing to put together a good offensive line to stay competitive, this is just another example of things not working they way they say it will.

I’ve noticed this issue for a LONG time.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Again, I would argue the better QB's in the NFL control their protection, read blitzes, etc. much better. This usually translates to more time even from a bad offensive line. Since Madden has no function for poor form, holding the ball to long, or not reading a blitz correctly, they choose to create a more difficult setting an alternative way. Imagine having a 68ovr QB, but rather than an OP pass rush, the throw was delayed by a second. Wouldn't that frustrate you more?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

Again, I would argue the better QB's in the NFL control their protection, read blitzes, etc. much better. This usually translates to more time even from a bad offensive line. Since Madden has no function for poor form, holding the ball to long, or not reading a blitz correctly, they choose to create a more difficult setting an alternative way. Imagine having a 68ovr QB, but rather than an OP pass rush, the throw was delayed by a second. Wouldn't that frustrate you more?

That is not much of an argument, the fans that understand football know that the line shares blitz pick up responsibility with the QB. Sadly it seems that fewer fans know this, as I've lost count of the times the defense gets a free rusher due to an overload blitz and my FB wall is littered with comments like "omg our line sucks, why didn't they block him"

But in Madden it is more than that, the QB affects 4 man rushes. A LT can stonewall a RE when he is blocking for Tom Brady, make the QB Joe Flacco and suddenly the LT gets beat constantly.

I understand what you are saying, real life Brady is the best at moving in the pocket to evade pressure, and maybe this attempts to replicate this. But that is akin to the game forcing inaccurate passes when you throw towards a shutdown corner.

What I would prefer is something that is more of a direct model of whatever they are trying to replicate. Sure, more blitzes should generate free rushers against a low awareness QB if "Id the mike" is not used. That is fairly direct.

[TheWood56]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

Again, I would argue the better QB's in the NFL control their protection, read blitzes, etc. much better. This usually translates to more time even from a bad offensive line. Since Madden has no function for poor form, holding the ball to long, or not reading a blitz correctly, they choose to create a more difficult setting an alternative way. Imagine having a 68ovr QB, but rather than an OP pass rush, the throw was delayed by a second. Wouldn't that frustrate you more?

If you're playing with a 68ovr QB, his power and/or accuracy shouldn't be good. Yes, his awareness probably sucks too, but you're physically controlling him. If you physically read the blitz because it's a poorly disguised defense and make the easy and obvious pass protection calls and hot routes, I don't see why your elite OL for example can't follow those correct calls so you can get a pass off. Instead, you tell your 90+ overall OL to slide protect left, and your LT Joe Thomas completely whiffs on his man and you get sacked from the D's overloaded right side you correctly identified. That shouldn't happen if you've physically made the right reads/calls. IMO, awareness for user controlled players should turn into consistency, not "make your OL suck". Your 68ovr QB has a noodle arm and poor awareness. Cool. If you're a smart Madden player and do everything perfect pre-snap, you still need to complete the pass. He already has a poor arm, now his low awareness (turned consistency) makes him not even consistently throw up to those ratings, so he's even more errant on passes now. If you're playing the CPU however, I 100% agree that the 68ovr QB with poor awareness shouldn't be able to pickup the exotic blitz or properly read the defense and make all the right decisions above the neck, which in turn would appear to make his OL look bad... but when you look back on the replay it's not because Joe Thomas got physically beat, it's because there was a free rusher or he held the ball way too long making his reads, etc.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

If you're playing with a 68ovr QB, his power and/or accuracy shouldn't be good. Yes, his awareness probably sucks too, but you're physically controlling him. If you physically read the blitz because it's a poorly disguised defense and make the easy and obvious pass protection calls and hot routes, I don't see why your elite OL for example can't follow those correct calls so you can get a pass off. Instead, you tell your 90+ overall OL to slide protect left, and your LT Joe Thomas completely whiffs on his man and you get sacked from the D's overloaded right side you correctly identified. That shouldn't happen if you've physically made the right reads/calls. IMO, awareness for user controlled players should turn into consistency, not "make your OL suck". Your 68ovr QB has a noodle arm and poor awareness. Cool. If you're a smart Madden player and do everything perfect pre-snap, you still need to complete the pass. He already has a poor arm, now his low awareness (turned consistency) makes him not even consistently throw up to those ratings, so he's even more errant on passes now. If you're playing the CPU however, I 100% agree that the 68ovr QB with poor awareness shouldn't be able to pickup the exotic blitz or properly read the defense and make all the right decisions above the neck, which in turn would appear to make his OL look bad... but when you look back on the replay it's not because Joe Thomas got physically beat, it's because there was a free rusher or he held the ball way too long making his reads, etc.

This brings us to the flaw in Madden. In game arm strength and accuracy is what separates QBs. That is not at all realistic. Tom Brady and Matt Ryan do not have strong arms. Some lower tier QBs are just as accurate throwing the ball as some of the top tier guys.

Real life the number one thing separating QBs is understanding coverages and throwing with anticipation (the oft used " throws a guy open" line). That is what makes Tom Brady the GOAT.

That very large part of what separates QB is not modeled in Madden.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

I haven't put much time in with Madden for the past several years but this has been the case for awhile I think. Same when you try to run with lower rated rbs. The defense sheds blocks better and you have to break more tackles in the backfield compared to running with better rbs.

[Hooe]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

According to the literature Tiburon released prior to the game launch, pass blocking doesn't consider the QB's awareness rating whatsoever.

[reyes the roof]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

I haven't put much time in with Madden for the past several years but this has been the case for awhile I think. Same when you try to run with lower rated rbs. The defense sheds blocks better and you have to break more tackles in the backfield compared to running with better rbs.

I feel like that's the case with RBs. Holes are way bigger with my starting RB compared to my backup

[boxboy99]

Re: its cool how when you play with bad QBs your line doesn't block well

Always thought blocking was better with better rated rbs. Defenders seem to shed blocks faster vs lower rated rbs.


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