Pay to Play in Madden

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Certainly most people have seen what garbage EA is doing with battlefront 2 by now... (If not, check here for the most down voted post in Reddit history https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBat...ocked/dppum98/)...

My questions is, do you think EA will do this junk with Madden? Obviously MUT is built off of the pay to play model, but could this happen in CFM? With the direction EA is going I wouldn't be surprised to see us have to pay $25 to use a custom playbook, or $25 to run blitzes on defense, or $25 to change the quarter length and accelerated clock options... Really for EA nothing is out of the question at this point.

It would be a surprise to hear that they're NOT trying to find ways to incorporate microtransactions into CFM somehow at this point.

[Hooe]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

There is no component of Madden which is pay-to-play (beyond the $60 entry fee) or pay-to-win.

The comparison to Battlefront 2 - a game which does have pay-to-win functionality) is off-base. The salary cap in MUT is a direct limit on whales buying their way to victory, and all of the cards from promotions may be earned from the challenges and events which are always free to play.

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

There is no component of Madden which is pay-to-play (beyond the $60 entry fee) or pay-to-win.

The comparison to Battlefront 2 - a game which does have pay-to-win functionality) is off-base. The salary cap in MUT is a direct limit on whales buying their way to victory, and all of the cards from promotions may be earned from the challenges and events which are always free to play.

Yes, but going forward with this precedent it is fair to expect EA to try to implement this. Obviously the team at Tiburon probably isn't going to want it just like DICE doubtfully wanted what they're dealing with, but EA makes those decisions and it is a bit worrisome to see how little they care about their customers. It would be very surprising to not see this model come to Madden in one way or another.

[SmashMan]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

MUT has been around for seven (eight?) years now. I think if they were going to drastically change that model in an effort to milk more money out of people, they would've done it by now. Obviously their current model for MUT is very successful for them.

With the direction EA is going I wouldn't be surprised to see us have to pay $25 to use a custom playbook, or $25 to run blitzes on defense, or $25 to change the quarter length and accelerated clock options... Really for EA nothing is out of the question at this point.

This part, this is just hyperbolic. You could get the point across better without the Chicken Little stuff.

[3ShowTime2]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

or $25 to run blitzes on defense, or $25 to change the quarter length and accelerated clock options

Haha that would be a little too much, but im with you in general...Im pretty sure they will go the subscription based route within the next few years and it does not take too much creativity that they will try something like purchasable player attribute boosts in franchise modes as well, or maybe customs playbooks as you said.

Im 100% sure that it will still get worse, weve not seen the end. Sports games with all the modes still offer a lot possibilities for monetization and they will try to squeeze everything out of us...

[Hooe]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

Yes, but going forward with this precedent it is fair to expect EA to try to implement this. Obviously the team at Tiburon probably isn't going to want it just like DICE doubtfully wanted what they're dealing with, but EA makes those decisions and it is a bit worrisome to see how little they care about their customers. It would be very surprising to not see this model come to Madden in one way or another.

I don't think it is fair to expect it. The backlash EA has received from Battlefront II since that game was even in beta has been overwhelming.

In addition, I think it's pretty obvious that Madden is a very retention-focused game. There's always something to do in MUT, always something to win, always some carrot to chase which you don't have to pay money for. All the recent feature additions in Franchise have a retention focus as well. In addition, since both MUT and Franchise are competitive multiplayer modes (to the point where EA has been spear-heading their e-sports push with FIFA and Madden), adding pay-to-win would completely undermine that. Pay-to-win is terrible game design and EA has rightly been raked over the coals for adding that into Battlefront.

EA will always try to find ways to try and make more money, that's the nature of AAA game development, but they also realize they have an obligation to make a game we want to play and spend money in first and foremost.

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

I don't think it is fair to expect it. The backlash EA has received from Battlefront II since that game was even in beta has been overwhelming.

In addition, I think it's pretty obvious that Madden is a very retention-focused game. There's always something to do in MUT, always something to win, always some carrot to chase which you don't have to pay money for. All the recent feature additions in Franchise have a retention focus as well. In addition, since both MUT and Franchise are competitive multiplayer modes (to the point where EA has been spear-heading their e-sports push with FIFA and Madden), adding pay-to-win would completely undermine that. Pay-to-win is terrible game design and EA has rightly been raked over the coals for adding that into Battlefront.

EA will always try to find ways to try and make more money, that's the nature of AAA game development, but they also realize they have an obligation to make a game we want to play and spend money in first and foremost.

If EA learned their lesson from Battlefront 2 you'd think that they would change it instead of continually finding more ways to make it pay to win. Ideally it would be great if they changed based on the backlash to BF2, but it doesn't seem to be deterring them from trying to squeeze any penny they can out of their customers.

I don't see them prioritizing the gamer over their potential profit in that situation at all and that's a bit worrisome since they own the rights to the only football game and they make the best soccer game each year.

[fballturkey]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

It would be extremely difficult to make a Pay to Play component of CFM, short of locking the whole thing behind a pay wall which I have complete confidence would tank sales irretrievably and be the literal End of Madden.

You could put in pay to win features and they have before. NCAA had them with advanced recruiting and progression and a few other things.

I don’t know how that would go over now. Battle lines have been drawn between the CFM and online/MUT crowds that would make there be far more noise if that were tried again. Imagine madden launching next year and for $10 you get more XP points per player and you can see who other teams are scouting. I don’t see that going over well and more importantly I don’t see them selling a lot of those, which is probably why it didn’t move over from NCAA in the first place.

[Hooe]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

If EA learned their lesson from Battlefront 2 you'd think that they would change it instead of continually finding more ways to make it pay to win. Ideally it would be great if they changed based on the backlash to BF2, but it doesn't seem to be deterring them from trying to squeeze any penny they can out of their customers.

I don't see them prioritizing the gamer over their potential profit in that situation at all and that's a bit worrisome since they own the rights to the only football game and they make the best soccer game each year.

It is very hard to pivot a AAA game quickly. Battlefront II is a massive game, and asking for a massive change in the game's economic model in mere weeks is not realistic. If they do change the game - I doubt they do, it's Star Wars, it's going to make money hand-over fist - it's going to take a title update, and it won't come out until like March or April at the earliest.

Realistically, I can't imagine we'll see a pronounced shift in how the game industry by-and-large is doing things until the middle of next year, but I think we will see one. We've been seeing pretty significant and more organized media and community pushback against exploitative micro-transactions and in-game economies this fall - there's been significant and growing negative feedback on how Shadow of War, Forza Motorsport 7, Battlefront II, and Call Of Duty: WWII have built microtransactions into their games. Games which are close to finished or just gone gold don't have time to react to that pushback. Projects which still have a ways to go to the finish line still have time to pivot. Things like loot boxes aren't going to just up and go away, though - they make too much money - but they will be changed to be more palatable, less exploitative, and less compromising of games' design.

[fballturkey]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

It’s off the topic of madden, but I have no problem with how Forza and COD WWII handle micro transactions/loot boxes. In COD it’s all cosmetic and you unlock things relatively quick.

Forza I especially don’t know what the fuss is about, because you can drive any car in the game (besides some DLC ones which are one of the times I’m ok with DLC because the cost offsets the developmental/licensing costs) in free mode, and the rewards in career mode are good enough to keep you going without ever spending a dime. The main problem for Forza is that people don’t up the race length to long which is where the game feels balanced both for gameplay and rewards.

Battlefront has a bigger problem because they are locking iconic characters behind ~40 hours of playtime each. That’s unreasonable and I wouldn’t assume the Starwars name is going to get them off the hook. Now if “Darth Vadar but in gold!” took 40 hours they wouldn’t be hearing any of this.

[Hooe]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

Forza I especially don’t know what the fuss is about, because you can drive any car in the game (besides some DLC ones which are one of the times I’m ok with DLC because the cost offsets the developmental/licensing costs) in free mode, and the rewards in career mode are good enough to keep you going without ever spending a dime. The main problem for Forza is that people don’t up the race length to long which is where the game feels balanced both for gameplay and rewards.

Specific to Forza (because I was a big fan of the series at one point) - Turn 10 compromised the game design to get loot boxes in.

One of the best-designed features from previous Forza games IMO was how the game handled driving assists. As a new player, you started with all the driving assists enabled - anti-lock brakes, automatic shifting with clutch assist, optimal driving line, etc. etc. As you improved your driving skills, you could turn these assists off one-by-one, and as you did so the game increased your credit rewards for racing on a higher difficulty. It's a simple but effective way to handle ramping up player skill.

That's gone now. The bonuses for turning off the assists are gone. Instead Turn 10 replaced those with credit modifiers found in crates - night racing mode, rain racing mode, etc. You get bonus credits for using these modifiers during races, which let you buy more loot boxes. It doesn't really make much sense, it doesn't help or incentivize new players get better at the game to become great players in online races, which is the direction that game is trending in given the existence of official FM racing ladders now.

This is the sort of stuff we're seeing the strongest push-back against with respect to loot boxes / micro-transactions in 2017: stuff that undermines the actual meat-and-potatoes of playing and mastering the game. This is the sort of stuff I don't want to see - and I doubt we will see - in Madden.

[Thunderhorse]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

Did they not do this with the final version of NCAA?

IIRC you could buy tools to get better scouting, better player development, etc. and if you did not pay it wasn't like you could unlock it.

I may be wrong here. I honestly do not remember.

[Hooe]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

Did they not do this with the final version of NCAA?

IIRC you could buy tools to get better scouting, better player development, etc. and if you did not pay it wasn't like you could unlock it.

I may be wrong here. I honestly do not remember.

You couldn't buy the coach boosts in NCAA with real money, no.

A few older versions of Madden did have pay-to-win mechanics, cheats you could by with real money, and those were in Franchise mode. You could buy max player progression boosts and block retirement cheats in Madden NFL 10. Those went away when Connected Franchise was introduced in M13, though.

[triplechin]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

I hope you're right and we do see a change because microtransactions have not only hampered gameplay but are also extremely exploitative. 2K was terrible with this at the beginning of 2k18 and is still bad but they got a lot of deserved backlash. Star Wars went from a definite buy to a non buy for me once I saw the issues. It really is frustrating that these suits are getting in the way of developers putting out quality games and us gamers enjoying them

[primo_80]

Re: Pay to Play in Madden

If it was called SW Battlefront 18, they wouldn't need to put a structure in place to incentivize purchases for people wanting to get caught up when they make their initial purchase this time next year. Every iteration of madden is replaced annually.

As we can see from today's pr reaction, EA is going to take as much as the consumers will give them and compromise when the market tells them what is unreasonable. I don't think they'll make us pay for things that are already part of the game, but I could see them adding scouting report packages for the draft or time saving things.

And even though a digital subscription model implies more development time because of digital distribution, I don't think their intentions are strictly to deliver a better product. I think it will allow them to cleverly earn more money in some form also.