The 7'3 Conundrum:

[ILLSmak]

So, 2k, I bought your game for 30, and I don't regret it. While the online is standard 2k fare (but much improved in some areas), I have been enjoying simcast live gaming. I haven't had this much fun in 2k since college hoops 2k8.

That being said, every year in 2k I make a big man, and every year I decide I am not going to make him 7'3, and then I realize later that I have to. Everyone knows that you have to be 7'3, but let's examine why (again!) I realized by playing 2k18 that our spamming this board is working.

First, height is an attribute, it should limit your other upgrades. Someone should pit two good players against each other and find out the height where actual height eclipses high ratings. I just made a 60 playmaking rebounder (for a fun stupid build), and he already finishes better than my 6'11 shot creating post scorer. I think it would be eye opening.

I also think that you have to make these guys not only end to end slow, but one side of the paint to the other slow. I was playing in the proving ground with my 60 7'3 guy, and the cpu drove, I was sure he was going to shoot it, so I jumped, but he didn't. He dished it to another guy who then shot a layup. However, I was still magnetically flying towards the ball and got the block. That happens a lot online as well.

These guys should be super foul prone and butter fingered, if you keep them in the game at all, but I'd prefer there to be a move toward not only archetypes but build (as in physical build) types... be like strong/tall/athletic or something and have preset heights and weights. It's an illusion of customization, and I'm sure all of the 10 7'3 guys who play this game won't be too upset that they can't be 7'3.

In summary, due to ball magnetism in rebounding and blocking and the sheer amount of ground a 7'3 can cover in the paint... not to mention the fact that they are somehow automatically better at finishing, they become the default choice. Height has always been an issue, but there has to be a way to fix it. You should have to be really good and intuitive to make use of a 7'3 guy.

I will take a disadvantage in gaming. I'm always picking weird builds, but not going 7'3 is more than a disadvantage. I'm pretty sure right now I could get online with a just made 7'3 60 and have more of an impact than with my other player who I actually worked on a bit.

This might be the only thing that really annoys me about 2k this year. Even tho sharpshooters are still pretty unrealistic.

-Smak

[shayellis]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

This applies to the Pro AM also. But I have asked many time and will continue to keep asking again.
1. What are the practical downsides of running a 7"3 Max weight build big instead of running a 6"11 normal weight build in Pro AM?
2. What are the practical downsides of running a max wingspan player thats justified? (especially as a big)

[Settlon]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

The truth of the matter is that 7'3" shouldn't be a common height for everyone to choose from. That should only be acquired through creating a player after reaching 99 on another player.

Because when you look at it, how many players in the NBA right now do we have standing at 7'3" tall?

It's very rare in this day and age. If 2k wants for a sim experience, I don't believe 7'3" should be easily attainable. It portrays for an arcade-like experience.

[jyoung]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

7'1" should be the tallest option for MyPlayers.

Reason being, there are only two 7'3" players in the NBA (Boban Marjanovic and Kristaps Porzingis), and only three 7'2" players (Salah Mejri, Alexis Ajinca, Zhou Qi), but there are twelve players who are 7'1" (too many names to list).

Capping MyPlayer centers' height at 7'1"and power forwards' height at 6'11" is one of the things that this year's Draft Combine mode got 100% right.

Every Pro Am team in 2K18 has at least one, usually two, and sometimes, as many as three 7'3" 340 players at C, PF, and sometimes, even at SF. Putting three max height, max weight cheeseballs on the backline of a 2-3 zone makes that part of the court completely impenetrable. Even having two 7'3" 340 cheeseypoofs on the backline of a 3-2 zone is much tougher to beat in 2K than it should be in real life because of how unrealistically agile and mobile those cheddarheads are in 2K.

[howardphillips214]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

In the other thread about removing cap restrictions, this was my main concern. It doesn't even matter if you have a 30-40 speed difference between your match up because they can literally ride your back the whole way on the break. If there's no PHYSICAL separation between the players of course there's no reason to make a fast player off ball. And this is EVERY character, not just bigs.

Too many times I have a player with 90+ off ball speed and acceleration ratings but am unable to separate from my match up on the break because he's DEFENSIVE FOULING me the ENTIRE time down court.

Then there's the spam steal CATCH UP speed.


YOU'RE TELLING ME, IF YOU CAN'T KEEP UP WITH YOUR MAN SPRINTING, SWATTING AT AIR MAKES YOU RUN FASTER THAN RUNNING?!?

if a player has a 38 off ball speed, that should go into reaction times, slow trying to block, steal, laterally especially AND MOST SPECIFICALLY getting up court.

Shaq in his later years didn't come down on defense half the time.. and guess what? His match up wasn't necessarily torching him down court either. Shaq wasn't worried about getting back on defense because everyone he was defending was mostly as slow as him. In top of that, if the other guy was running down to score, he's leaving Shaq wide open under the basket.

SO IF YOU WATCH THOSE GAMES, Shaq and his man we're usually playing the game at THEIR speed, while the other teammates in both sides ran at a normal NBA pace.

WHOLE POSSESSIONS are what should be at stake here, and a lot more of them than right now.

These days, my 50 off ball speed on my 2 7' bigs is plenty to stick with the team. That's absurd. I'm beating my teammates down court sometimes if I take off early enough, which is unacceptable.

Dirk's whole career he's been guarded by faster and more athletic guys. He's so slow, if Dirk inbounds, his man is down by the basket playing help defense. That's good for early shots at the rim, but if he is late to get back to Dirk by the time he hits the 3pt line that's buckets. I've watched so many games, it's a good 10 seconds he's STROLLING up court. Sometimes it's necessary, he's tired, or strategy. But a LOT of times the defender gets distracted, and thinks he can recover in time, only to get screened off ball to prevent the close out.



I'm saying that some SLOW players use that to their advantage. Magic Johnson wasn't this video game 99 speed, 99 dribble playmaker like they portray "PLAYMAKERS" in this game. His patience when breaking with the ball and waiting for passing windows is what made him good. He was DECEPTIVELY quick. That doesn't mean he's QUICK, it means he can fake you into thinking he's going one way and change directions fast ENOUGH that it throws you off.




Andre Miller had a very healthy career by never over extending his athleticism. He played the game at HIS Pace.

The reasons for post scorers in the 80s and 90s was to SLOW THE GAME DOWN.

Playoff basket ball is STILL a half court game. There has to be positives and negatives to being a fast paced team, and a grind it out team.

You don't have anyone banging in the post on a VIDEO GAME version of basketball. The biggest scoring threat before 3s became as valuable as they are now is next to non existent.


If the post and athleticism was more valued, and defense to counter all of them was implemented equally, we got raw hoops again.

But every year it's height and 3s. Rebounding and shooting are not the only ways to strategize in basketball 2k.

If the NBA payed like 2k, everyone on the floor shoots 70-80% wide open and everyone's 6'7 or taller.

That's not a league I would watch.

[bottledwaterfan25]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

As jyoung stated above, 7'3 my players shouldn't even be in the game in the first place. It completely throws off the balance of the game. They are too big, too quick, too fast, and too effective at rebounding, blocking, and scoring at the rim.

IF I repeat, IF, 2k insists on catering to the kiddies, the low IQ, and the lesser skilled player base by providing these cheesy, unrealistic behemoth 7'3 builds going forward into 2k19, they should be God Awful in terms of anything related to athleticism. Going forward, players that are that tall should be so slow and unathletic that few people even bother to use them. And they should only be elite at blocking/contesting shots, and rebounding.

[ImInThis]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

No you don't have to be 7'3 to play good. Maybe it's my build, but I have 7'1 Center Slashing Rim Protector. Great Defense, Great strength, and good speed. Unless they're a glass cleaner, I'm outrebounding that 7'3 big. With me being so quick, I'm able to get in front of them. My Strength is still low at 78, can't wait to get it at 91 so I'll be more competitive. I also have an 88 steal, which I really need to utilize if they get too close to the rim. I'd imagine ripping the ball from behind should be easy for me.

Going against these 7'3 340 dudes, it's a matter of high Strength and Speed. Nothing more. You're struggling because you're lacking in both departments. Yes you can be good and still beat them without the above, but having high strength and being faster will make things easier. Most those oversized centers do nothing but try to dunk, so you gotta keep them away from the rim.


I did feel like my 7' center was too small in the post though. And I'd love to make a 6'11 for speed and defense, but don't wanna take the chances.

[Thrustie]

Re: The 7'3 Conundrum:

I think people are kidding themselves if they feel like there’s any substantial advantage to being a smaller Center. If you’re outperforming max-sizers - great but all that means is you likely would be beating them even more if you were bigger. Yeah occasionally a smaller center beats me back down the court in transition and gets an easy bucket but most times I just run close enough to trigger animations or spam steal for boosts. In the half court, the speed/quickness difference is almost imperceptible. It’s flat out easier to disrupt/block their shots, outrebound them and bully them in the paint. Maybe they’re less likely to drop the ball if they catch it in traffic? But that’s a pretty marginal advantage if it exists.

I wish there was more advantages to being smaller. I played as a 6’11 Center last year and it had some advantage in Park - transition buckets/being able to guard smaller players on the perimeter more effectively. But in Pro-am I found almost no benefit whatsoever. I hope they make size differences more pronounced next year but until I see evidence, I’m going max size forever.