Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Everything you got, ladies and gentlemen.

What tests have you done? What happens when it’s high, low, or left alone?


Please. I want to know everything. So use this thread to share what threshold settings you have experimented with and what the results have been.


Thanks!


*Note: I play on All Madden, so I’m especially interested in those who play on that difficulty, but All Pros are welcomed too. Tell me all your secrets regarding speed threshold.

[cusefan74]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

The lower the threshold the bigger the separation in fast to slow players. Pretty simple really.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

The lower the threshold the bigger the separation in fast to slow players. Pretty simple really.

Think a little deeper into the SECONDARY effects of such a slider.


How does that affect the shape of the pocket?

How does that effect edge pressure versus interior pressure?

How does that affect zone coverage?

How does that affect man coverage?


How does that affect inside vs outside runs?


How does that effect qb drop back speed?


How does that affect the timing of route combinations?


I could go on all day.

And that’s not even getting into it whether or not the threshold affects acceleration and agility as well, and perhaps even pursuit.



Now that I’ve given the remedial course version of the question, do you have any useful input?






EDIT- just for an example, Edge rushers tend to have much higher speed than tackles. Decreasing the speed difference should result in less edge pressure. While increasing it may result in more interior pressure, since DTs tend to be a bit faster than some interior linemen.

There could be all kinds of game play ramifications.

[UtahUtes32]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

It sounds like you have done a lot with it. What have you seen?

[Aestis]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

- High threshold (80-90) is realistic in terms of actual speed differences between players, if you go by in-game speed vs 40 times. Meaning, high threshold is where you get a realistic difference between what a linemen runs and what a WR runs. It's the realistic difference between a 95 SPD 40 time and an 88 SPD 40 time. Test results are somewhere in page ~5-7ish I think of my user slider thread in the slider forums (RFF's 32-man User v User sliders).

- High threshold makes man coverage much better (read: legitimately viable). You're going to get more cool WR/DB ball animations at the point of catch. WRs wrestling for the ball, DBs swatting at hands to disrupt the catch. This means more catches "in traffic," so personally I'd up catching slider as it goes hand in hand. Man coverage has become a staple (meaning, called 40% or more) of a number of very very good defenses in my 32-man league and high threshold is the key reason, even more than the coverage sliders. And I mean all kinds... C2 man press, standard C1, etc...we have a cool mix of man-heavy teams and zone-heavy teams now. Doubt you will find that on default sliders.

- Obviously speed is minimized with high threshold, but we don't often talk about what takes its place. Acceleration & agility become even more important. Non-ratings things like momentum & pursuit angles become important. You will see slower linemen or LBs catch a faster RB from behind if it's in the first few steps of them getting the ball and they don't have a free runway to accelerate. You will also see this in the NFL, but some folks want to pretend this never happens. Since players are tighter, you get more animations. I consider this a neat side effect, but if you are anti-animation in all ways regardless of the cost, then I would not advise high SPD threshold.

- Net effect: higher threshold = tougher defense. In a game that almost always needs tougher defense. Fewer of what I would call non-read gimme TDs because a WR just straight outran a professional starting caliber CB by 5-10 yds.

- I don't think threshold has a huge impact on zone coverage. Obviously some small effects, like a slower DB who is playing 5-8 yds off the LOS at the snap isn't in much danger of being burned on a streak (realistic) unlike low threshold when even then they could be in danger. I shouldn't say they are NEVER in danger, though. Even on high threshold, if the QB has a ton of time in the pocket, and the DB/WR speed discrepancy is particularly large, and the QB has the THP to launch it waaay downfield...that throw *can* be hit. But that's pretty rarely which is how it should be. No professional DB should be in serious danger of losing to a vert route if they're aligned in off coverage in a C3 shell without biting on some kind of fake.

- In short, if you think that if Player A has 91 SPD they should always outrun player B (89 SPD) in virtually every scenario, then high threshold is not for you. Speed absolutely still matters at 80-90 threshold. Speed WRs are dangerous if you leave them on an island vs a slower DB....but that is far from an automatic TD like on default or lower. Speed backs still break huge gains, even more often than the NFL...but SPD isn't the end-all be-all.

- I also wouldn't advise high threshold if tough defense is not your thing. And if you play short quarters, then tough defense maybe *shouldn't* be your thing unless you want very low scores. If your games have half the snaps of an NFL team, then offense needs to be twice as easy for you to get realistic end-game scores & raw yardage numbers. Your per-play offensive success will be off-the-charts wildly powerful. But there's no way around that math.

[cusefan74]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

I don't think real deep into sliders on any game. I try to play a game for what it is, a game. People that start overthinking sliders are always the ones that say that they can never enjoy the game.

[JoshC1977]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

The biggest thing for me is this, at default threshold, QB dropbacks are too fast due to too much acceleration (most readily seen on 5-step drops from under center). By raising threshold to 53, it reduces the acceleration quotient from the threshold just enough to slow it down to much more realistic levels. This is critical for CPU timing as their dropbacks are much more in sync with the WR routes being run.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

It sounds like you have done a lot with it. What have you seen?

I haven’t much since Madden 25 or so. But what I remember back then was that you got a better shaped pocket by decreasing the speed difference between players. But they’ve totally changed how blocking interactions work, so now I’m not sure how it will work.

But tbh this thread is a short cut for me. I really don’t want to spend the time testing it when I’m about to manually edit every rooking in my CFM as soon as the NFL draft happens next week lol.

Also, I’m still trying to find a generic face or other NFL player whose in game face looks like a jimmy G.

And I just did an exhaustive test on finding out exactly when on cfm Madden 18 sets the ORDER of the teams you play, so I’m about done with testing for now lol.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

The biggest thing for me is this, at default threshold, QB dropbacks are too fast due to too much acceleration (most readily seen on 5-step drops from under center). By raising threshold to 53, it reduces the acceleration quotient from the threshold just enough to slow it down to much more realistic levels. This is critical for CPU timing as their dropbacks are much more in sync with the WR routes being run.

Does it screw up the drop backs the other way if you raise it too far?

[Nakazo]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

- High threshold (80-90) is realistic in terms of actual speed differences between players, if you go by in-game speed vs 40 times. Meaning, high threshold is where you get a realistic difference between what a linemen runs and what a WR runs. It's the realistic difference between a 95 SPD 40 time and an 88 SPD 40 time. Test results are somewhere in page ~5-7ish I think of my user slider thread in the slider forums (RFF's 32-man User v User sliders).

- High threshold makes man coverage much better (read: legitimately viable). You're going to get more cool WR/DB ball animations at the point of catch. WRs wrestling for the ball, DBs swatting at hands to disrupt the catch. This means more catches "in traffic," so personally I'd up catching slider as it goes hand in hand. Man coverage has become a staple (meaning, called 40% or more) of a number of very very good defenses in my 32-man league and high threshold is the key reason, even more than the coverage sliders. And I mean all kinds... C2 man press, standard C1, etc...we have a cool mix of man-heavy teams and zone-heavy teams now. Doubt you will find that on default sliders.

- Obviously speed is minimized with high threshold, but we don't often talk about what takes its place. Acceleration & agility become even more important. Non-ratings things like momentum & pursuit angles become important. You will see slower linemen or LBs catch a faster RB from behind if it's in the first few steps of them getting the ball and they don't have a free runway to accelerate. You will also see this in the NFL, but some folks want to pretend this never happens. Since players are tighter, you get more animations. I consider this a neat side effect, but if you are anti-animation in all ways regardless of the cost, then I would not advise high SPD threshold.

- Net effect: higher threshold = tougher defense. In a game that almost always needs tougher defense. Fewer of what I would call non-read gimme TDs because a WR just straight outran a professional starting caliber CB by 5-10 yds.

- I don't think threshold has a huge impact on zone coverage. Obviously some small effects, like a slower DB who is playing 5-8 yds off the LOS at the snap isn't in much danger of being burned on a streak (realistic) unlike low threshold when even then they could be in danger. I shouldn't say they are NEVER in danger, though. Even on high threshold, if the QB has a ton of time in the pocket, and the DB/WR speed discrepancy is particularly large, and the QB has the THP to launch it waaay downfield...that throw *can* be hit. But that's pretty rarely which is how it should be. No professional DB should be in serious danger of losing to a vert route if they're aligned in off coverage in a C3 shell without biting on some kind of fake.

- In short, if you think that if Player A has 91 SPD they should always outrun player B (89 SPD) in virtually every scenario, then high threshold is not for you. Speed absolutely still matters at 80-90 threshold. Speed WRs are dangerous if you leave them on an island vs a slower DB....but that is far from an automatic TD like on default or lower. Speed backs still break huge gains, even more often than the NFL...but SPD isn't the end-all be-all.

- I also wouldn't advise high threshold if tough defense is not your thing. And if you play short quarters, then tough defense maybe *shouldn't* be your thing unless you want very low scores. If your games have half the snaps of an NFL team, then offense needs to be twice as easy for you to get realistic end-game scores & raw yardage numbers. Your per-play offensive success will be off-the-charts wildly powerful. But there's no way around that math.

I'm looking to join a slider league and am interested in your in depth response to this question. Any open spots?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Aestis]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

I'm looking to join a slider league and am interested in your in depth response to this question. Any open spots?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Thank you--DM'd you response to avoid hijacking thread.

[JoshC1977]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

Does it screw up the drop backs the other way if you raise it too far?

The problem at 50 thresh is that there is just a hair too much acceleration (which leads to that gliding animation on dropbacks), by raising the thresh a tad, it fixes the animation issue by allowing for better foot-planting.

So what would happen at max thresh? Not sure, but I don't think it will slow them down more...it's just that the speed rating will then be more dominant over acceleration. The other thing too....you're impacting everyone on the field....it'll just be a totally different game altogether...so it could very well be fine.

[318boy]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

Threshold is a personal preference as explained by everyone that has posted, however it also aligns the game animations. If you play around the default game speed then 53 is without a doubt your magic number. Higher values definitely makes the game tuff but introduces more warping from my experience. Almost every problem in Madden can be fixed if you have the patience so there is no wrong value.

[JayCutlersCig]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

I’ve found that receivers are liable to get pretty good separation at 45, maybe about halfway into their route.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Darth Aegis]

Re: Give me all your discoveries about how tweaking speed threshold affects gameplay

With over 1000 testing hrs logged since release I have threshold set at 53 (sweet spot). I've tested it at 100 & had good results as well, You do have to move your sliders around depending on the threshold you use.

As far as game speed, this yr has been troubling for me. With the 2 man animations there are certain animations that EA seems to speed up the player or players to complete the animation, so your never running 100% on slow or very slow. Ex: You will notice the burst in speeds on QB PA & QB rollouts. My theory is EA has to compensate the animations to make these actually function together & work in the game. I've tested the speed, acceleration, & agility ratings as well at nauseam.