Height & Weight Player Archetypes

[Dallascs13]

Do height and weight play a role in the scheme/new archetype system. If not, does anyone believe it should? Do age and regression play a role?


*Having a hard distinguishing the different skills of players, do to inflated ratings I believe.
Ex) I envision a "red zone" threat as a taller, stronger, jump ball, receiver.
Odell Beckham Jr is rated extremely high in this category.. (

My question is Why? He's extremely talented no doubt, However, I think it takes away from the intended purpose of the system (which is to distinguish and highlight differences &"scheme fits), when all categories are rated high, or the same. Again he's extremely talented, so maybe he is a top red zone guy, but the point remains.

*Derrick henry is above an 80 rating in the "Elusive back" category. I don't understand why or how.

*Also take a look at Dak Prescotts Archetypes. He's well rounded in all categories, he can fit any scheme. Anyone who saw Dallas play last year knows he's not the most polished passer, yet in madden he's considered a good fit for any offense?

Why! Why! Why!

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

I think they’re really just the scheme fit overall like in previous maddens. They just call them archetypes now and tie it into XP system.

Poor representation of archetypes. They’re really nothing if you think about it. Any player will still play just fine in any system.

They’ve mentioned the ability to upgrade any skill regardless of scheme fit and archetype. All it is, is an XP modifier. And they’ve already admitted that a bad scheme fit won’t negatively impact a player, other than not getting as much XP as one who fits the scheme.


If you’re used to 2k, you would’ve assumed there’d be limits on player’s abilities and maybe even a player who doesn’t fit a scheme, would have worse in-game ratings or some penalty. Just a lazy “feature” that’s really been in the game for years.

[Darth Aegis]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

Gonna be interesting how this works. Good insight here for those that haven't seen this.
Check out the Bomber League interview with Clint.

https://youtu.be/84RgPieSgbE

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

As far as I understand it, archetypes are nothing but xp modifiers. I was hoping for body-types as archetypal, but nope. Anyway, the random element of xp I like, to a certain extent. It makes drafting more important. FA, too.

[Dallascs13]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

Do the archetypes and schemes effect anything that we will see on the field?

Like other than XP modifier, why is important for a player to match a scheme ?

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[Dallascs13]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

Is there a chess match between different schemes? Positives and negatives of each scheme?

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[T4VERTS]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

Is there a chess match between different schemes? Positives and negatives of each scheme?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

Not currently. I think year 1 is really about making sure it works, hence no negative impact on schemes. Look for it to evolve as they roll in coordinators in the future.

[Dallascs13]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

I was initially excited , I thought all aspects of a player were now defined (including height and weight) , with pros and cons of each (which would make the game more strategic)

Seriously what's the point? If you can just run any receiver out there regardless of height and weight & he plays the same.. or "fits" the "scheme"

Random progression and regression could have been done under the hood, without relating it to schemes and player types.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[T4VERTS]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

I was initially excited , I thought all aspects of a player were now defined (including height and weight) , with pros and cons of each (which would make the game more strategic)

Seriously what's the point? If you can just run any receiver out there regardless of height and weight & he plays the same.. or "fits" the "scheme"

Random progression and regression could have been done under the hood, without relating it to schemes and player types.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

Incremental progression. Everyone wants to run these super deep and advanced systems into the game ASAP but the reality is they aren't going to function perfectly early on in most cases (Not a Madden issue a programming issue in general). By introducing them in a non game breaking way if they don't work they can ensure the schemes are balanced and functioning correctly year 1 then in year 2 they can add negative functions to scheme knowing that the system was tested thoroughly in game for a year.

[Sucram7777]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

Do height and weight play a role in the scheme/new archetype system. If not, does anyone believe it should? Do age and regression play a role?


*Having a hard distinguishing the different skills of players, do to inflated ratings I believe.
Ex) I envision a "red zone" threat as a taller, stronger, jump ball, receiver.
Odell Beckham Jr is rated extremely high in this category.. (

My question is Why? He's extremely talented no doubt, However, I think it takes away from the intended purpose of the system (which is to distinguish and highlight differences &"scheme fits), when all categories are rated high, or the same. Again he's extremely talented, so maybe he is a top red zone guy, but the point remains.

*Derrick henry is above an 80 rating in the "Elusive back" category. I don't understand why or how.

*Also take a look at Dak Prescotts Archetypes. He's well rounded in all categories, he can fit any scheme. Anyone who saw Dallas play last year knows he's not the most polished passer, yet in madden he's considered a good fit for any offense?

Why! Why! Why!

I agree with much of this.
Plenty of players that lean hard to one archetype of play shouldn't be so well-rounded in others.

But on the other hand, if this is implemented how I imagine it, it does create value in players with lower Overall Ratings. For instances we have 2 WRs:

- One is a low 80's in Possession/Route Running/Red Zone Threat (ratings give 82ovr)
- The other is a 93 in Deep threat, yet is 70's in all the others. (ratings give 89ovr)

Whilst the 2nd guy has higher overall, the 1st guy in my eyes is more valuable because he can adapt to any scheme the team applies; ye old "Jack of All Trades, yet Master of None". However, the 2nd guy has more value to a scheme that needs that to add that Deep Threat to give their QB someone to try that deep ball with comfortably.


IF you manage to get a BRUISER Back like oldschool Jerome Bettis, his "Elusive Back" Archetype should be fizzly low (if existing at all). On the other end of the spectrum, "Power Back" should be next to nothing for a Barry Sanders/Darren Sproles type of Runner.

That at the very least will make players that can "Do it all" stand out more prominently and really give them stock.



Now, if Ratings themselves give birth to Archetype tendencies......then I won't be too happy about that.

[Dallascs13]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

I agree with much of this.
Plenty of players that lean hard to one archetype of play shouldn't be so well-rounded in others.

But on the other hand, if this is implemented how I imagine it, it does create value in players with lower Overall Ratings. For instances we have 2 WRs:

- One is a low 80's in Possession/Route Running/Red Zone Threat (ratings give 82ovr)
- The other is a 93 in Deep threat, yet is 70's in all the others. (ratings give 89ovr)

Whilst the 2nd guy has higher overall, the 1st guy in my eyes is more valuable because he can adapt to any scheme the team applies; ye old "Jack of All Trades, yet Master of None". However, the 2nd guy has more value to a scheme that needs that to add that Deep Threat to give their QB someone to try that deep ball with comfortably.


IF you manage to get a BRUISER Back like oldschool Jerome Bettis, his "Elusive Back" Archetype should be fizzly low (if existing at all). On the other end of the spectrum, "Power Back" should be next to nothing for a Barry Sanders/Darren Sproles type of Runner.

That at the very least will make players that can "Do it all" stand out more prominently and really give them stock.



Now, if Ratings themselves give birth to Archetype tendencies......then I won't be too happy about that.

I believe ratings themselves are reflected in the archetypes. Dak Prescott for example, it seems to me there are not enough ratings to truly distinguish differences.

It seems the same ratings that make him a good fit to be a field general , are also reflected in his strong arm, or west coast "archetypes"

& Further proof is the fact that Derrick Henry is above 80 In elusive back archetype..

I'm sure that was not the purpose, but with inflated ratings it's bound to happen, two examples of madden saying he can do it all... when he really cant.

Having Dak Prescott and Henry represented that way, lessens the uniqueness of those who
A) Specialize in those areas &
B) Those who actually can do several different things

I understand its year one of this, however I would hope it makes sense.

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[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

Incremental progression. Everyone wants to run these super deep and advanced systems into the game ASAP but the reality is they aren't going to function perfectly early on in most cases (Not a Madden issue a programming issue in general). By introducing them in a non game breaking way if they don't work they can ensure the schemes are balanced and functioning correctly year 1 then in year 2 they can add negative functions to scheme knowing that the system was tested thoroughly in game for a year.

I think you’re giving them too much credit. All they’ve done is add a label to something that’s already in the game, and then tie it a bit to XP. For multiple years every player has a different overall based on the scheme he’s in, even though it never changed his on he field performance.... so they’ve just named it, and put boxes around that... these aren’t even archetypes, they’re literally just XP mods that mean nothing in-game, and have no REAL consequences. When we say scheme fit should matter, we mean a player should have to be in the right scheme to perform. When we here archetype, it SHOULD mean a player is limited in his skills, where madden allows you to upgrade any skill for any player. So we’ll see power backs having a good season, and becoming highly elusive and high juke/spin or Zone coverage cornerbacks turning into elite man defenders.


It’s painting your house’s trim white when your roof is leaking...

[T4VERTS]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

I think you’re giving them too much credit. All they’ve done is add a label to something that’s already in the game, and then tie it a bit to XP. For multiple years every player has a different overall based on the scheme he’s in, even though it never changed his on he field performance.... so they’ve just named it, and put boxes around that... these aren’t even archetypes, they’re literally just XP mods that mean nothing in-game, and have no REAL consequences. When we say scheme fit should matter, we mean a player should have to be in the right scheme to perform. When we here archetype, it SHOULD mean a player is limited in his skills, where madden allows you to upgrade any skill for any player. So we’ll see power backs having a good season, and becoming highly elusive and high juke/spin or Zone coverage cornerbacks turning into elite man defenders.


It’s painting your house’s trim white when your roof is leaking...

This is an oversimplifications of what actually has occurred. I'm sure some of the news on what didn't make it in the release this year will eventually will come out and it'll make more sense. Until then I'll stand by what I said. I'll see if I can get John on the record over the next couple weeks to talk about it.

[Sucram7777]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

I think you’re giving them too much credit. All they’ve done is add a label to something that’s already in the game, and then tie it a bit to XP. For multiple years every player has a different overall based on the scheme he’s in, even though it never changed his on he field performance.... so they’ve just named it, and put boxes around that... these aren’t even archetypes, they’re literally just XP mods that mean nothing in-game, and have no REAL consequences. When we say scheme fit should matter, we mean a player should have to be in the right scheme to perform. When we here archetype, it SHOULD mean a player is limited in his skills, where madden allows you to upgrade any skill for any player. So we’ll see power backs having a good season, and becoming highly elusive and high juke/spin or Zone coverage cornerbacks turning into elite man defenders.


It’s painting your house’s trim white when your roof is leaking...

This is my nightmares coming true.

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Height & Weight Player Archetypes

This is my nightmares coming true.

From game informer article

Players whose archetype fits the team's scheme get XP bonuses, so they will gain new skill points faster, but there are no penalties for those who don't, and archetypes do not change a player's existing ratings.
Great overall players like Antonio Brown excel in multiple archetypes.
You can apply skill points into any archetype, so if a player doesn't fit the scheme off the bat, you can level the appropriate archetype to eventually make them fit the scheme.