On Ball Defensive Animations

[hurricane83]

I’ll start off with a disclaimer that I did not play a lot of NBA 2k18. I did play enough to know there was a lack of on ball defense and spam dribblers ruled. I also know this because I’m active with reading these forums so I can be in the know.

I’ve played ton of NBA 2k19 and I’m a sim player, which doesn’t always work well for me because I mainly play online play now as my go to mode. What I’ve noticed is that the on ball defensive animations are a bit OP. Players like Westbrook, John Wall, and Ben Simmons are rendered useless in open court situations because a defensive player who is slower can engage the hip ride animation and slow these fast players down enough that they can trigger an 8 second violation which is unrealistic. The likes of Al Horford (a lot of ppl use Celtics online) should not be able to hip ride Simmons in the open court. Simmons has a 93 w/ball rating and he’s 6 ft 10. I know 2k wanted to curb the dribble spammers. I am not a dribble spammer. I might do a crossover in transition or start a signature size up but I mainly try and run plays and play sim.

Is anyone else noticing these kind of issues? Da_Czar spoke of the new switch logic but it doesn’t take advantage when on the perimeter. Example I’m the bucks and I switch Brooke Lopez on to CP3. CP3 would either blow by Lopez or throw him of balance and create space for a jumper. Numerous other examples of this exist in real basketball but on 2k because of the defensive on ball animation and bumping u are not able to take advantage of mismatches on the perimeter.



Coupe this together with the online on ball steal spamming and defensive players like Enes Kanter being able to run into players with high ball control reach without making contact with the ball and knock the ball free and you have a recipe for disaster.

Tell me what you’re seeing and if you agree of disagree.


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[GisherJohn24]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

I’ll start off with a disclaimer that I did not play a lot of NBA 2k18. I did play enough to know there was a lack of on ball defense and spam dribblers ruled. I also know this because I’m active with reading these forums so I can be in the know.

I’ve played ton of NBA 2k19 and I’m a sim player, which doesn’t always work well for me because I mainly play online play now as my go to mode. What I’ve noticed is that the on ball defensive animations are a bit OP. Players like Westbrook, John Wall, and Ben Simmons are rendered useless in open court situations because a defensive player who is slower can engage the hip ride animation and slow these fast players down enough that they can trigger an 8 second violation which is unrealistic. The likes of Al Horford (a lot of ppl use Celtics online) should not be able to hip ride Simmons in the open court. Simmons has a 93 w/ball rating and he’s 6 ft 10. I know 2k wanted to curb the dribble spammers. I am not a dribble spammer. I might do a crossover in transition or start a signature size up but I mainly try and run plays and play sim.

Is anyone else noticing these kind of issues? Da_Czar spoke of the new switch logic but it doesn’t take advantage when on the perimeter. Example I’m the bucks and I switch Brooke Lopez on to CP3. CP3 would either blow by Lopez or throw him of balance and create space for a jumper. Numerous other examples of this exist in real basketball but on 2k because of the defensive on ball animation and bumping u are not able to take advantage of mismatches on the perimeter.



Coupe this together with the online on ball steal spamming and defensive players like Enes Kanter being able to run into players with high ball control reach without making contact with the ball and knock the ball free and you have a recipe for disaster.

Tell me what you’re seeing and if you agree of disagree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im' not good with details, but I just think there a defenders who are playing on ball defense who shouldn't be, like you mentioning Horford. Defense is really good in this game, the AI is awesome defensively, but players who are good to below average, these defensive players sometimes appear to be lock down defenders and they should not be. First game I played was the 97 bulls and I couldn't get Jordan around Lonzo Ball who is (decent) but remember, this is Michael Jordan. I hate to ask they tone it down, but when it appears all players seem to be lock down defenders, you do lose some immersion. It's hard to complain considering I like everything about it, and sliders alleviated my issues.

[hurricane83]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

Im' not good with details, but I just think there a defenders who are playing on ball defense who shouldn't be, like you mentioning Horford. Defense is really good in this game, the AI is awesome defensively, but players who are good to below average, these defensive players sometimes appear to be lock down defenders and they should not be. First game I played was the 97 bulls and I couldn't get Jordan around Lonzo Ball who is (decent) but remember, this is Michael Jordan. I hate to ask they tone it down, but when it appears all players seem to be lock down defenders, you do lose some immersion. It's hard to complain considering I like everything about it, and sliders alleviated my issues.

I agree the game is damn near perfect but MJ shouldn’t have issues getting around Lonzo Ball. I don’t think I’m asking for defense to be toned down but make it more true to life where you can exploit perimeter mismatches just as they allow u to exploit post game mismatches. If u watch the cpu play they will immediately dump it down to the post if say Curry gets switched onto a player like Carmelo or a big man but the human can’t take advantage of that same matchup online when playing against another human on the perimeter. JJ Redick should be able to stay in front of Harden with any consistency. But Da_Czar did talk about superstar difficult not being true to life sim and that’s the difficulty level for online games so there’s that issue.


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[GisherJohn24]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

it's a tough line to balance on when people complained for years the defense in nba 2k was stagnant and people would run around you too easily getting blown by too easily, but it needs to be more prevalent with guys that are known to be lock down defenders, and like you said, everyone appears to be lockdown defender. So if tweak, they need to make it for guys who are not good defenisive players not the entire engine, just for "those players". I thought back on the old 2k games there was a better balance, I could be wrong, but it seems to be a problem next gen making the game more balanced. Still a work in progress for sure. But def still pleased with the final product. Sliders do help you, but obviously not for online.

[Kushmir]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

Yeah we've all seen this. In 2K17 they started doing great things with blocking fouls. Those instances you mentioned would be a great time to implement those in the same 50/50 model they use for Sideline Cheese.

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That way sometimes it'd be a foul....sometimes those guys would get away with it. But sure, mismatches matter.

[hurricane83]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

Just played an online game vs 10-11’ Mavericks. I have current Spurs and Peja Stojakavic (spell check) is playing Jimmy Butler type defense on Derozen. Then Jason Kidd continuously spans the steal button and he’s out of position yet when I press the speed trigger to blow by him my man dribbles with and open body and doesn’t blow by allow defender to recover and hip ride. Zero ****ing penalty for online spamming. You can’t exploit over aggressive defenders, offensive animations are slow and allow average defensive cheese tactics to be prevalent. You pump fake get a man in the air and u can’t blow by him cause he’s allowed to recover. I can’t play this game online until a patch makes mismatches work properly. I’m not asking for defenders to be nerfed. I’m asking for players with skills sets that take advantage of a defenders weaknesses to be able be used like they would in real life. No one presses up on Ben Simmons 40 ft from the basket and is able to stay infront of him with Peja or Carmelo or Horford. Hope Czar sees this.


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[ksuttonjr76]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

I do hate the animation in the backcourt where you can't break away from a defender when you're trying to run a fastbreak. Honestly, I haven't played online for the past two days, because I've practicing my butt off in scrimmage mode.

To be 100% honest, 2K Sports didn't make this game as approachable when compared to previous years. You can pick up the game and play it casually, but that will only take you so far unless you play it on the lower difficulties and/or change the sliders.

NBA 2K19 is definitely a challenge this year.

[BQ32]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

I do hate the animation in the backcourt where you can't break away from a defender when you're trying to run a fastbreak. Honestly, I haven't played online for the past two days, because I've practicing my butt off in scrimmage mode.

To be 100% honest, 2K Sports didn't make this game as approachable when compared to previous years. You can pick up the game and play it casually, but that will only take you so far unless you play it on the lower difficulties and/or change the sliders.

NBA 2K19 is definitely a challenge this year.

It's not that it is a challenge but it is too much and the AI defense is completely unfair. I have played a few games of play now online player control. Every player that gets matched up with an AI in that mode has a ridiculously poor shooting percentage in every game that I have played. I literally lit another human up for 65 points one game and the next game got matched up with an AI and went like 2 for 9 from the field. It's ridiculous, you can not beat them off the dribble without burning all your stamina and they are magnetized to you for the entire game. It is just very unfun to play against an AI and a huge disadvantage. As much as people complained about not being able to play defense last year I thought it was way more realistic then this year. Basketball is an offensive game now, and teams that play great D are not because they have a bunch of dudes that lock everyone down on the perimeter, it is because they have great schemes to force good offensive players into less advantageous situations and giving up the situations that are less of a threat.

[hurricane83]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

It's not that it is a challenge but it is too much and the AI defense is completely unfair. I have played a few games of play now online player control. Every player that gets matched up with an AI in that mode has a ridiculously poor shooting percentage in every game that I have played. I literally lit another human up for 65 points one game and the next game got matched up with an AI and went like 2 for 9 from the field. It's ridiculous, you can not beat them off the dribble without burning all your stamina and they are magnetized to you for the entire game. It is just very unfun to play against an AI and a huge disadvantage. As much as people complained about not being able to play defense last year I thought it was way more realistic then this year. Basketball is an offensive game now, and teams that play great D are not because they have a bunch of dudes that lock everyone down on the perimeter, it is because they have great schemes to force good offensive players into less advantageous situations and giving up the situations that are less of a threat.

I agree with u. In play now online it’s rampant being bodied up by lesser defenders and it truly takes away from the experience. Da_Czar said that Superstar difficult is not realistic experience because poor defenders react unrealistically well. All-Star difficult is more like the real NBA where a poor defender like Kyle Korver will be exposed by a great offensive player. I want that experience online. I want them to cut the cheese that we see online now.


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[ksuttonjr76]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

It's not that it is a challenge but it is too much and the AI defense is completely unfair. I have played a few games of play now online player control. Every player that gets matched up with an AI in that mode has a ridiculously poor shooting percentage in every game that I have played. I literally lit another human up for 65 points one game and the next game got matched up with an AI and went like 2 for 9 from the field. It's ridiculous, you can not beat them off the dribble without burning all your stamina and they are magnetized to you for the entire game. It is just very unfun to play against an AI and a huge disadvantage. As much as people complained about not being able to play defense last year I thought it was way more realistic then this year. Basketball is an offensive game now, and teams that play great D are not because they have a bunch of dudes that lock everyone down on the perimeter, it is because they have great schemes to force good offensive players into less advantageous situations and giving up the situations that are less of a threat.

Not to be that guy, but the problem that you're running into that there's no way to lose the defender unless it's a mismatch, one on one, or screens being utilized. Humans will make mistakes or do something stupid. The AI (unfortunately) won't make such mistakes. It kinda sucks, but I wouldn't know how to address that issue without opening a door that people would try to exploit.

[BA2929]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

I agree with u. In play now online it’s rampant being bodied up by lesser defenders and it truly takes away from the experience. Da_Czar said that Superstar difficult is not realistic experience because poor defenders react unrealistically well. All-Star difficult is more like the real NBA where a poor defender like Kyle Korver will be exposed by a great offensive player. I want that experience online. I want them to cut the cheese that we see online now.

You will never see a sports game without cheese online. It is impossible to get rid of. No matter what 2k does, someone will find a way to cheese the system somehow.


They're walking a very thin line in regards to on-ball defense. Too much in the direction you're suggesting and defense is non-existent again. I'd much rather have it be harder on the offensive side of the ball than impossible to stop anything on the defensive side.

[hurricane83]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

You will never see a sports game without cheese online. It is impossible to get rid of. No matter what 2k does, someone will find a way to cheese the system somehow.


They're walking a very thin line in regards to on-ball defense. Too much in the direction you're suggesting and defense is non-existent again. I'd much rather have it be harder on the offensive side of the ball than impossible to stop anything on the defensive side.

I agree with u 100% but I’ll say this. As it currently stands you as a user cannot properly exploit perimeter mismatches. If Kyle Korver is bodying up Ben Simmons 75 feet from the basket, hip riding him and causing me to get stuck in an animation where even if I steer away from the defense I’m unable to get away then what does that do for the game. Basket is a game of counters, adjustments and most of all shot making. In the defensive adjustments they give u these options and it explains in great detail if u do this then u are opening up this. Currently driving to the hoop with players that should be able to call weak perimeter players or big clumsy bigs like Brooke Lopez does not exist. CP3 should not have to do 8 shamgods and a step back to blow by and create a drive and still be body bumped and stymied on his drive. That’s not SIM.


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[hurricane83]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

You will never see a sports game without cheese online. It is impossible to get rid of. No matter what 2k does, someone will find a way to cheese the system somehow.


They're walking a very thin line in regards to on-ball defense. Too much in the direction you're suggesting and defense is non-existent again. I'd much rather have it be harder on the offensive side of the ball than impossible to stop anything on the defensive side.

Now If it’s the clippers backcourt if pat Beverly and Avery Bradley then yes it should be harder and I should need a screen to get a step or some off ball movement to gain an advantage but JJ Redick is a defensive stopper online and that kills the immersion.


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[BA2929]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

Now If it’s the clippers backcourt if pat Beverly and Avery Bradley then yes it should be harder and I should need a screen to get a step or some off ball movement to gain an advantage but JJ Redick is a defensive stopper online and that kills the immersion.

So you think you should be able to blow by JJ Reddick on every play, 100% of the time, and he never has the chance to stop you? Is that what you want?

CP3 should not have to do 8 shamgods and a step back to blow by and create a drive and still be body bumped and stymied on his drive. That’s not SIM.

When would CP3 ever even attempt to do that many dribble moves against one guy? How is the idea of that even "sim"? If CP3 can't shake a guy after a move, he's not going to keep doing moves against the guy for 20 seconds. He'll either restart the offense. get a pick or throw up a contested jumper.



Kevin Love isn't the best perimeter defender, but he did lockdown Steph Curry in the Finals in 2016 on a few plays. From what I'm reading, what you want is for that to NEVER happen. You are suggesting that bad defenders are always bad, and top flight guys like CP3 and Steph never have to work for their buckets.

[m29a]

Re: On Ball Defensive Animations

I feel the same as you hurricane83. It had originally somewhat deflated my interest in the game which also happened with 2K17. I don't find this constant bump, and rarely being able to drive particularly fun or realistic.

I've watched enough games to know that in real life on the perimeter, if you are hugging up on someone like how the AI constantly does, you're going to get blownby most times, because as a defender, without space, you can't react to the dribbler. Yet the AI defenders can recover and mirror your input almost all the time.

Thankfully though, as I only play offline, I adjusted some sliders like the body-up sensitivity and on-ball d, and it has helped open the game back up. Good defenders are still effective, as they should be, but the lesser defenders are able to be properly taken advantage of.

I understand many people prefer how it is now, and I get it, but when I watch real NBA games, there is none of this constant bumping going on around the perimeter like how 2K19 does it.