Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

[underdog13]

So I was reflecting on the recent Josh Rosen/Kyler Murray saga. What occured to me is that if that had happened in Madden, the first thing people would do is complain and call it unrealistic. Heck, my buddy and I thought it was when the Cardinals drafted another QB in the first round in our franchise.

My buddy ended up trading for Rosen for a future 1st and a current 3rd. Which end up being more than what the Cards got in real life. Just goes to show you how we compare A.I decision making to irl Gm's.

[MtVasuvius]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

Another way to look at this - the NFL has gotten so weird with transactions and teambuilding decisions that it makes Madden's awful AI look rational

(obvious joke is obvious, before I get angry replies)

[stinkubus]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

So I was reflecting on the recent Josh Rosen/Kyler Murray saga. What occured to me is that if that had happened in Madden, the first thing people would do is complain and call it unrealistic. Heck, my buddy and I thought it was when the Cardinals drafted another QB in the first round in our franchise.

My buddy ended up trading for Rosen for a future 1st and a current 3rd. Which end up being more than what the Cards got in real life. Just goes to show you how we compare A.I decision making to irl Gm's.

Rookie wage scale makes it much more feasible to move on from these guys and more teams should do so instead of wasting 2 or more years on someone who isn't going to work.

Would also like to see more QB needy teams doing what WAS did a few years back when they took RGIII and Cousins in the same draft.

[canes21]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

The difference between Madden and real life is that the Cardinals actually have a plan in real life to make Murray the QB of the future and are going to actively build around him. They also wanted to get whatever they could for Rosen.


In Madden they are just drafting another QB because he will be higher rated than their current one and no other reason really. They don't have a plan of attack on how they are going to build around him outside of the schemes system. They don't sit there thinking they have to move Rosen and get what they can while he holds value.


If Madden can get an AI that actually sets up plans so things happen like this in-game for actual reasons other than he's higher rated by a few points than their current year 1 QB then I think most here would be more than okay with it. The way the logic is now and the lack of actual plans from all the CPU controlled teams is what makes it irritating.

[adembroski]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

There's a big difference between the real life Cardinals taking the calculated risk that Murray is going to be a special player and Madden Cardinals not knowing the 81 OVR QB on it's roster is 21 years old.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

Valid point by the OP. The Cardinals changed Head Coaches. This probably had some influence on the decision to change QBs. Would be nice if Madden's AI had some logical steps which could be followed to decisions made on the field and off field.

A scenario which could play out in the NFL and which would be nice to see happen in Madden - Eli Manning starts slow and the Giants are 2-6 at the halfway point. Time to put in rookie Daniel Jones. 1st round money also pushes players into starting positions regardless of their OVR rating.

[briz1046]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

I think we would all agree that Maddens GM A.I. is simplistic and basic , however it does get some undue criticism due to a general misunderstanding of probability within the general population ( the same can be said for some gameplay criticism )

Most people have the preconcieved notion that unlikely events ' never' happen when in reality they are guarranteed to do so given a large enough sample size ,
Its said people encounter a " one-in-a-million " event approximately once a month in daily life , but if such events are to occur in a video game are up in arms with outrage

[canes21]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

I think we would all agree that Maddens GM A.I. is simplistic and basic , however it does get some undue criticism due to a general misunderstanding of probability within the general population ( the same can be said for some gameplay criticism )

Most people have the preconcieved notion that unlikely events ' never' happen when in reality they are guarranteed to do so given a large enough sample size ,
Its said people encounter a " one-in-a-million " event approximately once a month in daily life , but if such events are to occur in a video game are up in arms with outrage

The thing is, these "once in a million" events like a team taking a QB in the 1st round two years in a row happen year after year and sometimes with multiple teams in franchise mode. EA tried to correct this and now once in a lifetime QBs are falling to the 3rd and 4th rounds.


It's not undue criticism to expect the AI to set up plans and draft, trade, and sign free agents based off of their goals. As it stands right now the AI doesn't seem to do anymore than look at player A vs player B and choose the higher overall player and that's that. They don't plan for the future. They make decisions based off of now and have no concept of time it seems.

[stinkubus]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

The game almost needed those stud QBs though because developing them was pretty hit or miss. 6-7 mediocre upgrades in a row wasn't out of the question.

[briz1046]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

The thing is, these "once in a million" events like a team taking a QB in the 1st round two years in a row happen year after year and sometimes with multiple teams in franchise mode. EA tried to correct this and now once in a lifetime QBs are falling to the 3rd and 4th rounds.


It's not undue criticism to expect the AI to set up plans and draft, trade, and sign free agents based off of their goals. As it stands right now the AI doesn't seem to do anymore than look at player A vs player B and choose the higher overall player and that's that. They don't plan for the future. They make decisions based off of now and have no concept of time it seems.

As I said at the beginning of my post , we ALL agree the G.M. A.I. is simplistic and basic , which is what you are saying , that doesn't mean all of the criticism it receives is totally warranted however

People , myself included , make assumptions that future events will fall into a pattern they deem reasonable and realistic when in actuality they rarely do.

If I had booted up my CFM 2 years ago , simmed 2 years ahead and seen the Steelers had traded away both Martavis Bryant and Antonio Brown , lost Bell in FA , and lost Shazier forever I would , no doubt , of rolled my eyes and blamed EA for its stupidity, I'd never have thought it realistic, but it's happened.

I wasnt saying you are wrong , merely that SOME criticism is more a product of our own ideas and preconceptions of what is realistic

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

As I said at the beginning of my post , we ALL agree the G.M. A.I. is simplistic and basic , which is what you are saying , that doesn't mean all of the criticism it receives is totally warranted however

People , myself included , make assumptions that future events will fall into a pattern they deem reasonable and realistic when in actuality they rarely do.

If I had booted up my CFM 2 years ago , simmed 2 years ahead and seen the Steelers had traded away both Martavis Bryant and Antonio Brown , lost Bell in FA , and lost Shazier forever I would , no doubt , of rolled my eyes and blamed EA for its stupidity, I'd never have thought it realistic, but it's happened.

I wasnt saying you are wrong , merely that SOME criticism is more a product of our own ideas and preconceptions of what is realistic

Yep. There is the famous sentiment that fiction has it tougher than reality because fiction has to make sense. We all want our entertainment to have more rationality in its outcomes than we see in reality every day.

[canes21]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

As I said at the beginning of my post , we ALL agree the G.M. A.I. is simplistic and basic , which is what you are saying , that doesn't mean all of the criticism it receives is totally warranted however

People , myself included , make assumptions that future events will fall into a pattern they deem reasonable and realistic when in actuality they rarely do.

If I had booted up my CFM 2 years ago , simmed 2 years ahead and seen the Steelers had traded away both Martavis Bryant and Antonio Brown , lost Bell in FA , and lost Shazier forever I would , no doubt , of rolled my eyes and blamed EA for its stupidity, I'd never have thought it realistic, but it's happened.

I wasnt saying you are wrong , merely that SOME criticism is more a product of our own ideas and preconceptions of what is realistic

I see where you're coming from. I personally don't think I fall into that category. I don't really look too much into every single move. I know some people roll their eyes when they see the Rams signing Bell after year one constantly. To me, I don't think stuff like that is unbelievable and it doesn't bother me.


My whole point, which is seems you do get, is that the GM AI needs to get some serious work done to it and they need to implement the concepts of time and planning into the GM AI behavior.

[tru11]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

There is a difference between things happening incidental and structural......

[TarHeelPhenom]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

It ain't just Madden...it's pretty much every sports game ever made. In 99% of the franchise modes of basketball, football and baseball games, the AI always drafts based on ONE rating...the overall. It takes no thought of depth chart and fit. It's "the QB on the team now or the Point Guard on the team now is 82 OVR...there is a QB or Point Guard in the draft that's 83 OVR...select that player." To me the only way you fix that issue is to remove the OVR rating altogether. The draft logic should be geared toward various factors like depth chart, scheme, current player productivity at said position etc. That's why people go through the painstaking process of controlling all teams in franchise mode; because if not things just go haywire.

[Haze88]

Re: Madden A.I not that bad (Truth is stranger than Fiction)

As I said at the beginning of my post , we ALL agree the G.M. A.I. is simplistic and basic , which is what you are saying , that doesn't mean all of the criticism it receives is totally warranted however

People , myself included , make assumptions that future events will fall into a pattern they deem reasonable and realistic when in actuality they rarely do.

If I had booted up my CFM 2 years ago , simmed 2 years ahead and seen the Steelers had traded away both Martavis Bryant and Antonio Brown , lost Bell in FA , and lost Shazier forever I would , no doubt , of rolled my eyes and blamed EA for its stupidity, I'd never have thought it realistic, but it's happened.

I wasnt saying you are wrong , merely that SOME criticism is more a product of our own ideas and preconceptions of what is realistic

The difference is the circumstances that lead to this aren't in Madden anymore. Martavis' suspensions, Brown's attitude issues, Bell's holdout and Shazier's career ending injury aren't things that have been in Madden since the PS2. With those still in the game it would be implausible still but at least possible. Same with the Rosen/Murray thing. In Madden coaches do nothing and GMs don't adapt to the coaching changes either so it would be a case of Murray has higher ratings vs new coach wants his type of guy and Rosen would also still be on the roster rather than immediately traded. It does sound like some of this is finally coming back from Madden 05-07 franchise modes but based on the way it's been since the PS3 this would be rightly mocked in Madden