Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

[Hooe]

See thread title. Beyond the "knockout" conditions for zone abilities, what gameplay strategies do you plan on using to account for players' various X-Factor and Zone abilities on offense and defense?

The primary motivation for this thread is the "Double Me" zone ability possessed by some wide receivers such as JuJu Smith-Schuster (who torched me in the M20 beta), A.J. Green, and Mike Evans. As a refresher, the Double Me zone ability gives an in-the-zone receiver a significant advantage in aggressive catch scenarios when single-covered.

I fear a lot of people are going to initially react to this ability with "OMG it's OP!!!" once they end up on the wrong end of it, particularly with (in my personal experience) the ubiquity of Cover 3 Match in user defensive schemes in Madden. Simply matching the deep third CB into man coverage (or even the outside quarter CB in Cover 4 Quarters) onto the #1 outside receiver won't work to counter a Double Me receiver who's in the zone, unless maybe you have your own in-the-zone CB over there, because you'll almost always get single coverage on that receiver based solely on the play call.

As a counter, I'd initially look into defenses with a deep half safety - Cover 2 Carry and 2 Man Under come to mind. Obviously those leave you very vulnerable in run defense because you take the eighth man out of the box, and obviously have their own pass defense strengths and weaknesses. I also see myself calling Cover 6 more (it's something I rarely used in past Madden games as I never understood how or when to use it) as to offer defense against unbalanced passing sets, particularly when it's the Double Me receiver who is isolated on the weak side. By default, Madden orients the Cover 4 side of the Cover 6 defense to the passing strength of the formation, so the aforementioned isolated X-Factor receiver will be bracketed by the cloud flat CB (who should carry the vertical route of the #1 WR) and the deep half safety, and the other half of your defense can still man-match and have some semblance of run defense.

Tell me if I'm wrong on any of this also in addition to providing your own strategies and tips, obviously.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

The best strategy is to disable them. Absolutely guaranteed to work.

I’ll be doing that until Frosty is ready, so that we can mod out the arcadey graphics.

But it’s looking like the game will be plenty of fun wothout them, if people don’t want to deal with an additional non-football component of strategy.


Still, I imagine the best strategy if an offensive player gets in their zone is to do what the Patriots did to Mahomes last year: keep him off the field. As for a defensive player, just attack where he isn’t.

[canes21]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Disabling them will not get rid of their indicator under the player.

I'll either A) not do anything special to counter them unless the CPU 100% also uses special strategy to counter them, but since the CPU still doesn't even hot route or do really any pre-play adjustments I will continue to play by the same rules as them, or B) I'll have sliders that make the game artificially harder than it should be based off of the ratings matchups and then I will use all the highlighting, double-teaming, etc. I can to contain them.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Disabling them will not get rid of their indicator under the player.

I'll either A) not do anything special to counter them unless the CPU 100% also uses special strategy to counter them, but since the CPU still doesn't even hot route or do really any pre-play adjustments I will continue to play by the same rules as them, or B) I'll have sliders that make the game artificially harder than it should be based off of the ratings matchups and then I will use all the highlighting, double-teaming, etc. I can to contain them.

Jeez. Looks like I’m waiting until September when Frosty is out to buy it. Unless you can edit all of them out.

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Counter with an X-factor. I wrote about this in the beta thread, but my team in the beta was the 49ers and I had Sherman and when I played the Bengals they have AJ Green as an x factor. On the first 2 plays of the game Dalton threw to Green, who destroyed my corner. I then matched up Sherman on Green and he didn't get another target until the final drive of the 4th quarter when the game was on the line. On the first pass to him in the 4th quarter, he got by Sherman for a first down. On the second pass to him, Sherman picked Dalton off in the end zone.

There won't always be a time when x factors can be directly countered like this, but from the beta it's clear that you have to have a plan or they're going to destroy you. If there's a DE/OLB, i'll shift my protection to that side every time. If there's a DT, I'll try to do more bootleg stuff to get the pocket moving and i'll do a lot of quick passes and outside runs.

QB's felt like the toughest ones to counter in the beta so I'm not totally sure what I'll do against them at this point, but it's pretty sick that we actually have to think about this stuff in Madden now. They nailed this system.

[KyGamerLT]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Convert my cover 4 into a cover 3 by changing the safety coverage depending on the offense. My FS would play deep middle while the SS is used for yellow zones or bracket coverage for double me X factor. Slot corner assignment changed to seam/flat or purple zone. Easier to do if you use Y to adjust your defense.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Putting a top defending, x-factor player would be a good strategy to prevent the x-factor from triggering.

Split coverage such as Cover 6 should be a solid strategy.

If you like to user a player, I would user the defender lined up on the x-factor player; in this case I would use my 2nd best defender. (I loved playing CB in the M20 beta, so rewarding for me)



Mix of man/zone coverages. I like Cover 2 for manning up a CB on a receiver. A cloud/flat is good if the receiver goes vertical but then you lose double coverage if he breaks inside. But with the CB in man cover you have to decide how to cover the flat if the TE or HB is on the side of the x-factor player. This could result in assigning a DE of OLB to flat or man the TE/HB.


Ultimately, I prefer to user the CB on the x-factor. That will be my choice, and I would use split coverages as those are what I prefer to use by default, plus using Cover 4 due to run fits. Usering the CB allows me a reduction in risk of making a poor pre-snap adjustment through changing a zone into Man; I can focus on making the proper post-snap read and free-roam with the CB.

The biggest problem I have had changing zones to man has been flats becoming open.

[Kid OS]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Countering X-Factor WR's was easy for me in the beta. My strategy was very simple... leave them open. Call a play where the DB that is guarding the receiver is in man coverage, but then hot route him to blitz. Leave the WR so open that the QB has no choice but to throw it to him. Swoop in with your user skills and make the INT. You'd be surprised at how greedy both human and CPU QB's can be.

[ODogg]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Jeez. Looks like I’m waiting until September when Frosty is out to buy it. Unless you can edit all of them out.

You get used to them fairly quickly, I did in the beta. Not as big of a deal as you might think..


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

You get used to them fairly quickly, I did in the beta. Not as big of a deal as you might think..


Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

I never got used to the captain star logos last year, and spent months removing captain designations until I got the game for PC (for free), and someone showed be how to remove them.

They were just too arcadey for me to ignore them.


*Referring to the on-the-field translucent star logos, not the captain patches.

[edgevoice]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Jeez. Looks like I’m waiting until September when Frosty is out to buy it. Unless you can edit all of them out.

When I played a franchise mode game in the Beta, I turned all visuals off and did not see any X Factor icons appear. beneath their respective players. I still received on-screen feedback between plays as to who was in or how close they were to getting into the zone. However, in franchise practice mode, the icons did appear for whatever reason.

[edgevoice]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

See thread title. Beyond the "knockout" conditions for zone abilities, what gameplay strategies do you plan on using to account for players' various X-Factor and Zone abilities on offense and defense?

The primary motivation for this thread is the "Double Me" zone ability possessed by some wide receivers such as JuJu Smith-Schuster (who torched me in the M20 beta), A.J. Green, and Mike Evans. As a refresher, the Double Me zone ability gives an in-the-zone receiver a significant advantage in aggressive catch scenarios when single-covered.

I fear a lot of people are going to initially react to this ability with "OMG it's OP!!!" once they end up on the wrong end of it, particularly with (in my personal experience) the ubiquity of Cover 3 Match in user defensive schemes in Madden. Simply matching the deep third CB into man coverage (or even the outside quarter CB in Cover 4 Quarters) onto the #1 outside receiver won't work to counter a Double Me receiver who's in the zone, unless maybe you have your own in-the-zone CB over there, because you'll almost always get single coverage on that receiver based solely on the play call.

As a counter, I'd initially look into defenses with a deep half safety - Cover 2 Carry and 2 Man Under come to mind. Obviously those leave you very vulnerable in run defense because you take the eighth man out of the box, and obviously have their own pass defense strengths and weaknesses. I also see myself calling Cover 6 more (it's something I rarely used in past Madden games as I never understood how or when to use it) as to offer defense against unbalanced passing sets, particularly when it's the Double Me receiver who is isolated on the weak side. By default, Madden orients the Cover 4 side of the Cover 6 defense to the passing strength of the formation, so the aforementioned isolated X-Factor receiver will be bracketed by the cloud flat CB (who should carry the vertical route of the #1 WR) and the deep half safety, and the other half of your defense can still man-match and have some semblance of run defense.

Tell me if I'm wrong on any of this also in addition to providing your own strategies and tips, obviously.

In response to your primary motivation, I guess the first thing I'll need to figure out is what does the double-me X Factor really mean. Does it mean I have to actually call double man coverage on that receiver? If so, and more importantly if those defenses exist, I will have to be quick to audible to the appropriate double X, Y or Z receiver defense. Another technique to consider, if man coverage plays well with the personnel you have, is to play man under and assign the safety to the X Factor receiver side to also play man coverage on him. One could also manually assign the robber safety in cover 1 to also play man on him. I'll have to wait to see how it plays out, Additionally, I will look to see if spotlighting that receiver may also be effective.

Of course, making these adjustments will make you vulnerable in other areas. The user has to decide if he's willing to pay that price. If X-Factor plays out as advertised, and was not installed as simply a back-of-the-box gimmick or to place added emphasis on MUT purchases, this added feature could bring a heightened strategic element that's been sorely missing from the game. I'm cautiously optimistic that it will serve that purpose in my humble opinion. However, I am concerned that we may be subject to frequent tuning updates, regarding X Factor ability outcomes, which have been shown to cause gameplay problems in other areas.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Here's my issue with the double me mechanic - Madden doesn't have an very intuitive way to easily double cover a receiver.

[canes21]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

Here's my issue with the double me mechanic - Madden doesn't have an very intuitive way to easily double cover a receiver.

And the CPU doesn't ever double a player and has no idea the pre-play adjustments even exist.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Countering Zone and X-Factor Abilities

The double Me mechanic is very strategic for online play. This can dictate which player the user will have to control. If someone has usered the MLB for the majority of their Madden experience, they will potentially be forced to learn how to user a new position.

I can see the mechanic as a nice strategy piece and also as incentive for players to experiment with usering a new position they may not have tried; they may just like playing a different position and then try other positions.

I think I am like most player in Madden who stuck to usering a DL player at first, then graduated to a MLB. Seems many stay with the MLB, especially in past Madden games because the position played at a Superman level. If M20 stays similar to the beta, the LBs, and especially the MLB should not play like a God. (fingers crossed that nothing changed)