It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

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  • feeq14
    MVP
    • Jun 2004
    • 3526

    #1

    It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

    It would do a great bit of help for EA to change up they're defensive gameplay from an Xs and Os standpoint.

    For one, they need to change position terminology, especially based on the defensive scheme. There is no such thing as an "outside linebacker" in a 3-4. Khalil Mack and Von Miller aren't OLBs they're edge rushers. J.J Watt and Akim Hicks are Defensive ends, but they are not the same type of defensive ends that Joey Bosa and Demarcus Lawrence are (both really still edges).

    More importantly, they really need to alter depth chart style to be more realistic.

    The best thing they could do is alter defensive play calling so we could pick our alignment and then our coverage instead of picking a whole formation, but that would over-encumber defensive play calling. Instead they should get rid of the current depth chart format and utilize some of the options they added last year with SLWR and 3rdback etc.

    They should scrap the current depth chart designations and do the following :

    Box safety/single high safety- this would be the safety designated to play in the box on cover 3 coverages and 8 man front alignments. This way we assure that Eddie Jackson is playing up high no matter the offensive front.

    Sam/Mike/Will- For the linebackers. Again this makes it so Danny Treveythan can be at the point of attack on the strong side runs to eat up blockers while the much quicker Roquan Smith scrapes for tackles.

    Joker/Edge- This will replace the weakside DE in a 4-3 and the weakside linebacker in a 3-4.

    The key thing is that right now, the defense "Flips" and that just shouldn't happen. Defensive ends never only line up on once side of the formation and it's too complicated to pull the formation sub at the play-calling screen when really as soon as the offense begins to align we should see a guy like Joey Bosa head to the weakside of the formation every time.
  • SolidSquid
    MVP
    • Aug 2014
    • 3159

    #2
    Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

    Originally posted by feeq14
    It would do a great bit of help for EA to change up they're defensive gameplay from an Xs and Os standpoint.

    For one, they need to change position terminology, especially based on the defensive scheme. There is no such thing as an "outside linebacker" in a 3-4. Khalil Mack and Von Miller aren't OLBs they're edge rushers. J.J Watt and Akim Hicks are Defensive ends, but they are not the same type of defensive ends that Joey Bosa and Demarcus Lawrence are (both really still edges).

    More importantly, they really need to alter depth chart style to be more realistic.

    The best thing they could do is alter defensive play calling so we could pick our alignment and then our coverage instead of picking a whole formation, but that would over-encumber defensive play calling. Instead they should get rid of the current depth chart format and utilize some of the options they added last year with SLWR and 3rdback etc.

    They should scrap the current depth chart designations and do the following :

    Box safety/single high safety- this would be the safety designated to play in the box on cover 3 coverages and 8 man front alignments. This way we assure that Eddie Jackson is playing up high no matter the offensive front.

    Sam/Mike/Will- For the linebackers. Again this makes it so Danny Treveythan can be at the point of attack on the strong side runs to eat up blockers while the much quicker Roquan Smith scrapes for tackles.

    Joker/Edge- This will replace the weakside DE in a 4-3 and the weakside linebacker in a 3-4.

    The key thing is that right now, the defense "Flips" and that just shouldn't happen. Defensive ends never only line up on once side of the formation and it's too complicated to pull the formation sub at the play-calling screen when really as soon as the offense begins to align we should see a guy like Joey Bosa head to the weakside of the formation every time.
    Been asking for this for so long. I think its too “footbally” for it to be a priority for them

    Comment

    • TheBleedingRed21
      Game Dev
      • Oct 2010
      • 5071

      #3
      Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

      unfortunately as mentioned above, this is too complicated for many casuals that play Madden. A vast amount of people just want to quickly place their best players in easily. I wouldn’t ever expect this even though I think it would be a good change.
      PSN: TheBleedingRed21
      Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/TheBleedingRED21_OS

      Comment

      • infinite76
        Rookie
        • Oct 2014
        • 426

        #4
        Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

        Originally posted by feeq14
        It would do a great bit of help for EA to change up they're defensive gameplay from an Xs and Os standpoint.



        For one, they need to change position terminology, especially based on the defensive scheme. There is no such thing as an "outside linebacker" in a 3-4. Khalil Mack and Von Miller aren't OLBs they're edge rushers. J.J Watt and Akim Hicks are Defensive ends, but they are not the same type of defensive ends that Joey Bosa and Demarcus Lawrence are (both really still edges).



        More importantly, they really need to alter depth chart style to be more realistic.



        The best thing they could do is alter defensive play calling so we could pick our alignment and then our coverage instead of picking a whole formation, but that would over-encumber defensive play calling. Instead they should get rid of the current depth chart format and utilize some of the options they added last year with SLWR and 3rdback etc.



        They should scrap the current depth chart designations and do the following :



        Box safety/single high safety- this would be the safety designated to play in the box on cover 3 coverages and 8 man front alignments. This way we assure that Eddie Jackson is playing up high no matter the offensive front.



        Sam/Mike/Will- For the linebackers. Again this makes it so Danny Treveythan can be at the point of attack on the strong side runs to eat up blockers while the much quicker Roquan Smith scrapes for tackles.



        Joker/Edge- This will replace the weakside DE in a 4-3 and the weakside linebacker in a 3-4.



        The key thing is that right now, the defense "Flips" and that just shouldn't happen. Defensive ends never only line up on once side of the formation and it's too complicated to pull the formation sub at the play-calling screen when really as soon as the offense begins to align we should see a guy like Joey Bosa head to the weakside of the formation every time.
        I don't have the latest one but can't you remedy this using playbook specific formations?

        Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

        Comment

        • Shosum13
          MVP
          • Jul 2011
          • 1177

          #5
          Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

          I would love this, unfortunately they probably won't ever do it based off the fact it is to complicated for the casual gamer. At the very least I wish they'd at least give us the Sam/Mike/Will linebacker positions and 1 tech and 3 tech DT. These positions alone would go a long way in helping us get our defense set up the right way. I just don't see them doing it though because they don't want to turn the average user away from the game.

          Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • timhere1970
            MVP
            • Sep 2013
            • 1810

            #6
            Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth charty

            Originally posted by infinite76
            I don't have the latest one but can't you remedy this using playbook specific formations?

            Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
            You can help yourself with the playbook and formation subs but you are stuck either flipping or not flipping. If i flip the play to line up strong side for instance it will take my box safety and put him in a deep zone and the deep zone safety to the box. It is a pick your poison situation. It will also take a blitzing lb to zone and a zone lb to pass rush. The simple fix is to let you choose to switch personnel when you flip a play. Le/re, lolb/rolb, fs/ss.

            Comment

            • JoshC1977
              All Star
              • Dec 2010
              • 11564

              #7
              Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

              Originally posted by Shosum13
              I would love this, unfortunately they probably won't ever do it based off the fact it is to complicated for the casual gamer. At the very least I wish they'd at least give us the Sam/Mike/Will linebacker positions and 1 tech and 3 tech DT. These positions alone would go a long way in helping us get our defense set up the right way. I just don't see them doing it though because they don't want to turn the average user away from the game.

              Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


              I think they could do it, but they need tools to teach people. It could be a pop-up in the roster and depth chart screens. It could say something like “The 1-tech plays over the shoulder of the center. His role is to take up space in the middle and is typically filled by players with the ‘run stopper’ archetype “.

              Advanced players will know the position specific ratings needed while more casual players can go “Oh, I put my run stopper here”.

              Education is key....


              Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
              Play the games you love, not the games you want to love.

              Comment

              • Hooe
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2002
                • 21555

                #8
                Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                100% agree on this. I'd definitely welcome this change to a future version of Madden.

                To add on to it, I'd like to see options for the following:

                - field / boundary side cornerback
                - field / boundary side safety
                - split end / flanker
                - inline tight end "Y" / move tight end "U"
                - 0-Technique / 1-Technique nose tackle
                - 3-Technique defensive tackle

                To streamline the depth chart for users, which depth chart slots appear in the depth chart menu should be gated by the user's scheme setting. For example, using the Cover 3 examples from the OP's post, maybe you see "Box Safety" and "Single-High Safety" instead of "Free Safety" and "Strong Safety" if your defensive scheme setting is 4-3 Cover 3.

                Comment

                • ijumpedthegun
                  Rookie
                  • Jan 2016
                  • 360

                  #9
                  Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                  I'd settle with having a different depth chart position for the two DTs in a 4-3 or maybe a designation by gap for the down linemen in a 3-4. I'd love to see a NT actually line up where he's supposed to as opposed to where he's at on the depth chart and vice-versa.

                  Whether or not we rename the backers in a 3-4 doesn't much matter to me, but it would be cool to see.

                  Comment

                  • infinite76
                    Rookie
                    • Oct 2014
                    • 426

                    #10
                    Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                    Originally posted by TheBleedingRed21
                    unfortunately as mentioned above, this is too complicated for many casuals that play Madden. A vast amount of people just want to quickly place their best players in easily. I wouldn’t ever expect this even though I think it would be a good change.
                    You hit it in the nose. These are complicated football concepts that 12 yo playing the game don't care about. Madden literally just implemented the same badge system that makes 2k play like nba jams. It's not designed to be a true to life football simulation. We will never get what we are looking for from EA. Heck I haven't found a text based PC football game that can do all that yet.

                    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

                    Comment

                    • underdog13
                      MVP
                      • Apr 2012
                      • 3222

                      #11
                      Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                      Honestly even decently knowledgeable football fans don't know the terminology you mentioned. There is just a huge knowledge gap.
                      PSN: Dalton1985
                      Steam: Failure To Communicate

                      Comment

                      • Hooe
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 21555

                        #12
                        Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                        Originally posted by underdog13
                        Honestly even decently knowledgeable football fans don't know the terminology you mentioned. There is just a huge knowledge gap.
                        You are probably right that there is a sizable knowledge gap.

                        At the same time, many people - not only people who are just fans like myself but also actual real-world quarterbacks - point to Madden as a football teaching tool. More detail is not too much of an ask, IMO.

                        Comment

                        • Shosum13
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 1177

                          #13
                          Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                          Originally posted by JoshC1977
                          I think they could do it, but they need tools to teach people. It could be a pop-up in the roster and depth chart screens. It could say something like “The 1-tech plays over the shoulder of the center. His role is to take up space in the middle and is typically filled by players with the ‘run stopper’ archetype “.

                          Advanced players will know the position specific ratings needed while more casual players can go “Oh, I put my run stopper here”.

                          Education is key....


                          Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                          Yea but we're talking about a company that implemented route matching zone coverages without really educating anyone. Luckily there were some good YouTube videos out there but for the people that didn't know where to look they just ended up confused when they user a certain player and play it like a spot drop zone coverage.

                          Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

                          Comment

                          • story84
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 1

                            #14
                            Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                            It would be great if they could categorise the front seven by: interior linemen; edge rushers; and interior backers. How these scheme for 3-4 or 4-3 could be set by the archetypes/roles currently in place.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

                            Comment

                            • toodles2you90
                              Pro
                              • Apr 2018
                              • 501

                              #15
                              Re: It's time to scrap the current defensive depth chart

                              I feel like they could probably do something where you can pick between a basic depth which would be what they already have and an advanced depth chart which allows things you guys are talking about.

                              It would allow people that casually play to not be overwhelmed by all of this. Then have some sort of video series on positions in the advanced depth chart to help people learn if they want to.

                              The issue I would see from that is H2H online play because more than likely, the advanced depth chart players would have an advantage but maybe you could toggle to only play people with basic if thats the case.

                              Comment

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