RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

[Aestis]

You should use these sliders IF:

• You are in a CFM with other humans, preferably 32 but a few leagues of 2-10 do use these as well
• You want gameplay to be as realistic as Madden can get--this means defense is tougher, and your INTs & sacks may be high if you are more aggressive than an NFL QB would be
• You want sliders driven by actual data from scores of only league User v User games, based on per-play efficiency metrics built by an experienced analytics leader
• You are comfortable with the fact that these may not lead to a good User v CPU experience--these are entirely optimized for our 32-man league, not CPU games

The Methodology:

Spoiler

Dating back to M15, I've been measuring our league's User v User game stats & benchmarking against the NFL using per-play advanced metrics (e.g. Pts per Play, Net Pass Yds per Drop-back, Air & YAC Yds per Pass Att, Sack & INT rates, 20+ yd run %, etc.) as well as NFL weekly medians (to understand volatility) to balance our sliders.

This means hard data from 32 humans across hundreds of games are what dictate my slider adjustments, NOT the subjective judgment by the slider creator on how they think they should be performing.

So if I'm personally having a hard time running the ball, but the league as a whole is tracking great vs NFL run success...the run game goes untouched. Without this visibility into league-wide stats in USER games only, there is no honest & objective way to balance a 32-man league.

Again, this is all benchmarked against NFL median per-play success, not just game-end point & yardage totals. Sim leagues who run 6-minute quarters where each team snaps 35-45 plays/game might end up with realistic looking 34-24 type scores, 280 yds passing by QBs, 90 yds rushing from RBs...but that's off 21 pass attempts and 13 rushes. Despite calling themselves "sim leagues," their actual gameplay is incredibly arcadey. Scoring is MUCH easier in these leagues. Scoring in the NFL is tough, teams have to punt often, and our sliders are designed to reflect this.

If you run this set, to succeed you will have to:

Spoiler

- Stop throwing it into the middle of sagging coverage. Hardest thing for most Madden players to learn. NFL QBs don't force it, and they don't try to thread tight needles 15 yards downfield at a huge risk of INT. Madden players tend to force it downfield into coverage no matter what then complain about INTs. NFL QBs check down & live to fight another day--even if it means punting.
- Get the ball out quick. Pass rush can come quickly. You better actually read Ds & have a progression. The "drop back 10+ yds and wait for someone to come open" age-old video game approach won't work.
- ID & adjust to possible blitzes. All the pass block sliders in the world won't make your 5 blockers protect against 6 rushers. In the NFL, 5 man pressure vs 5 blockers reaches the QB in 2.5 seconds or less about half the time. 4 man rushes vs 5 blockers reach the QB in 3 seconds or less about half the time. Better have your "hot" read ready when the D dials up a blitz.
- Get in 3rd & manageable. 3rd & long is just really really tough on these sliders, as it is in the NFL. Don't anticipate converting a whole lot of 3rd & 8+ on these sliders.
- Stop assuming a route will always get open because it always got open in previous Maddens. E.g. corner routes & outs are no longer automatic wins on these sliders. (But they can still be highly effective vs the right coverages with the right matchups!)

tldr; Good defense + limiting turnovers + field position = winning, with these sliders.

What the passing game on these sliders looks like, in a few screenshots capturing WR/DB interactions you'll see more of:
(Will update these for M20... but here's a few older shots in the meantime.)

Spoiler

The NFL is a game of inches. On these sliders, a fast WR gets a step or two on a streak, not 10 yds (but a step is enough with a great throw!). An elite WR can make a contested catch. Your decisions have to be made QUICKLY or windows tighten.

QUICK PASSES:





MID-RANGE PASSES:





DEEP PASSES:

How this set is benchmarking statistically vs the NFL in our league:

Spoiler

We run ~115-118 snaps per game, NFL runs ~125-128. So for the efficiency metrics, goal is to track about ~10% higher than the NFL to get the game-end totals about even. This is very close to NFL feel slightly on the offensive side. Many leagues run 35%-80% more offensive than the NFL without even realizing it, which means actual gameplay looks & feels nothing at all like the NFL and is, in fact, very arcade.

We launched our league Aug 12... stay tuned...

ver 1.0 - 2019 Season

Spoiler

Updated: Sep 26

ver 1.9 - 2021 Season

Spoiler

Updated: Nov 7

[Cming]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Waiting on these like [emoji120]


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[MoeIsBetter]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Looking forward to these but no rush bro. Everyone should know that even when these drop, there's still a lot of work to do. Patience is a virtue.

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

ver 0.9 is ready!

As stated, these are def not final. I need more data. But from eyeballing week 2 results, it seems much better than week 1. Probably still a little rough around the edges, but week 1 was a train wreck.

So far sacks are very high, but also I think this is some necessary adjustment on the part of users.

More to come...

Also I would highly encourage leagues to use my XP sliders--by season 3 & beyond, if you're using higher or lower XP sliders, it will start to really affect gameplay due to differing talent distribution among positions vs our league.

Hope you all enjoy!

[charter04]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

This is the online league I'm in and week two is for sure looking better. The week two game I just played was better.

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

[TheDominator273]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

ver 0.9 is ready!

As stated, these are def not final. I need more data. But from eyeballing week 2 results, it seems much better than week 1. Probably still a little rough around the edges, but week 1 was a train wreck. [emoji38]

So far sacks are very high, but also I think this is some necessary adjustment on the part of users.

More to come...

Also I would highly encourage leagues to use my XP sliders--by season 3 & beyond, if you're using higher or lower XP sliders, it will start to really affect gameplay due to differing talent distribution among positions vs our league.

Hope you all enjoy!

What were penalties like in Week 2? Penalty sliders seem high in many cases and without players having a way to ever improve penalty traits outside of a league wide implemented system those numbers have me wary potential flag fests.

Definitely willing to give these a try for my league though and will keep an eye on this thread for updates.

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

What were penalties like in Week 2? Penalty sliders seem high in many cases and without players having a way to ever improve penalty traits outside of a league wide implemented system those numbers have me wary potential flag fests.

Definitely willing to give these a try for my league though and will keep an eye on this thread for updates.

I plan to lower DPI for wk 3 but rest are fine. Even DPI isn't far off but deep passing doesn't need more help than default atm.

[Justb__]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Defensive holding looks pretty high, what has been your experience with it?

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Defensive holding looks pretty high, what has been your experience with it?

Never actually gets called, feel it helps DBs play a bit more physical but it could be placebo.

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

ver 0.91 for wk 3:

User PBK -2
User RBK -2
User FUM +5

CPU PBK -3
CPU RBK -5
CPU FUM +5

DPI -10


Run game was too strong at 50, will continue to monitor at 48.

Passing game was more on point with these changes. You WILL see a ton of sacks initially. I've made the philosophical decision that our users are going to have to start to account for great pass rushers & potential blitzers. The guys taking tons of sacks are holding onto the ball too long. They will adjust. Pass game is more balanced with a realistic time-to-throw, but again the sack #s will be astronomically high right now. You either accept it or you try to reduce sacks by allowing your users to sit in pocket 4-5s regularly and thus throw downfield far more often.

Edit: forgot FUM rate was still a tad high, getting another bump.

[Justb__]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

ver 0.91 for wk 3:

User PBK -2
User RBK -2
User FUM +5

CPU PBK -3
CPU RBK -5
CPU FUM +5

DPI -10


Run game was too strong at 50, will continue to monitor at 48.

Passing game was more on point with these changes. You WILL see a ton of sacks initially. I've made the philosophical decision that our users are going to have to start to account for great pass rushers & potential blitzers. The guys taking tons of sacks are holding onto the ball too long. They will adjust. Pass game is more balanced with a realistic time-to-throw, but again the sack #s will be astronomically high right now. You either accept it or you try to reduce sacks by allowing your users to sit in pocket 4-5s regularly and thus throw downfield far more often.

Edit: forgot FUM rate was still a tad high, getting another bump.

Maybe stupid question, but do cpu sliders affect a user game at all? Like the safety you are not usering for example is he going based off the cpu slider or user slider in a user v user game?

[creece]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Love your sets over the past. Anyone in here find a set that incorporates these sliders while also providing a solid USER v CPU? Love the User v User base but my leagues are generally 4-8 users

Or has anyone tried these HUM vs CPU and has it been good to them in that regards. Really love what this set does for the user v user leagues. Just so many cpu games that that aspect still matters :/

[New2Jack]

Re: eRFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

As always, awesome work. I appeciate you sharing these. OSPML will use these sliders.

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Maybe stupid question, but do cpu sliders affect a user game at all? Like the safety you are not usering for example is he going based off the cpu slider or user slider in a user v user game?

Short answer: I don't know.

In general I think most do not. CPU sliders are not supposed to affect user games, to my understanding. AI defenders should use User sliders, per your question. But I found a couple years back when we were really having issues balancing pass rush that I could move User PBK from 0 to 100 with no effect on the data (or the eye test). The moment I bumped CPU PBK up 10-20 pts, pressure dropped (and stayed low). So there may be things where the User slider acts as a modifier to the CPU setting. At the time I dug up some old discussion around PBK doing this very thing prior to my experience.

So now I just change CPU as a placebo 'just in case' and also so if anyone does play to CPU, maybe this makes it a bit better.

[Aestis]

Re: RFF's M20 32-man CFM USER v USER Sliders

Love your sets over the past. Anyone in here find a set that incorporates these sliders while also providing a solid USER v CPU? Love the User v User base but my leagues are generally 4-8 users

Or has anyone tried these HUM vs CPU and has it been good to them in that regards. Really love what this set does for the user v user leagues. Just so many cpu games that that aspect still matters :/

As always, awesome work. I appeciate you sharing these. OSPML will use these sliders.

Appreciate the feedback guys!

I'll put charter on the spot in that I feel we have similar philosophies on sliders, and in the past I've felt his CPU sliders maybe worked with ours. He's also a part of our league now so may have even more insight moving forward on how to find a middle ground.