The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

[jake19ny]

Just an op-ed piece here and I would love any feedback on it.

After spending time with the NHL 20 trial I have discovered the single greatest problem with the game and the series. I won’t be breaking any new ground here as many of us have complained about it for years but after a lot of thought I believe the problem is the biggest and if they ever corrected it would dramatically improve this very flawed game.

First of all those who know me from the forums know I’ve been around awhile and have plenty of gripes about the series. Many of you offline hardcore sim guys share those gripes as do some online players. I’m going to list them anyway.

Brain dead AI
Lack of player separation
Legacy issues
No Roster Share
Lack of board play
Lack of Neutral Zone play
Special teams play all wrong
Idiotic commentary
Lack of stat overlays
Lack of penalties

I’m sure I’m forgetting a few but that will do.

Occasionally I reflect on my position on the series and wonder if I’m being to hard on the game. It is NHL hockey after all....the fastest and most high paced sport around where many things happen in split seconds. Surely it cannot be easy to duplicate it in a video game. So after playing the NHL 20 trial and seeing some good things but also seeing ALL of the old bad things I have decided I could live with all the bad things if they just fixed 1 thing........Player separation. ���� Boom right? “Hey no crap Jake thanks making us read this just to complain about something we already know”....but let’s look at it deeper because it’s been the sole problem that has ruined this game since it’s inception.

Let’s start with our wish for it to return to PC. I loved the game on PC and like many have pined for the days of NHL 2004 through 2009. The modding community was amazing. That said as I look back with all the mods and tools available the players all pretty much played the same and every team felt like every team.

Let’s examine our thirst for Roster Share, one of my biggest gripes. Why? Sure it makes getting better rosters faster. The revamped roster project was amazing and absolutely made the game better but in the end every player still pretty much played the same and every team felt like every team.

When you play against the Caps you should know you need to prepare for when Ovie is out there. You should know when he’s out there but you don’t. Until you see his name or signature shot (wow) you don’t know him from a 4th liner.

When you are skating down the boards in the corner against one of the top hitters you should know “I’m about to get plastered”....but you don’t you will most likely bump off him like you were hit by any of the other cones on defense.

When you play Tampa you should know your facing Valishevsky in net and that D is going to make it hard to enter the zone. Oh better be mindful of when their top line is out....but your not. Line 1 line 4 same thing same North South game.

How about squaring off with the Bruins? You should know it’s going be a grind fest and a lot of hitting but no....it’s just another game that feels just like every other game.

Now I haven’t played Madden in years that game lost me for other reasons. But I remember playing seasons on their and when I played the Patriots you knew you were facing Brady. You had to scheme to play him. Playing against a top CB don’t throw in that direction. A bull hard running back? Stuff the middle. A quick speedy RB? Watch the outsides. Michael Vick? Always....Always be ready for him to take off. Bottom line is when you played a specific team you knew it and felt like you were playing that team.

That’s what’s sorely missing from the NHL series. It’s why none of us can make it more than a month playing the damn game. It gets so boring and stale because every single player and as a result every single team feels exactly the same. I used to blame the lack of players separation on HUT but it’s honestly been in the game forever.
If they would only address this I believe I could live with many of this games flaws, still complain lol, but live with it because I think I would have fun.

Thoughts?

[BV28]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

That's a lot of reasons! Lol but in all honesty yes, everything you listed are the reasons why this game is not going to be a buy for me.

Madden 20 made leaps and bounds this year as far as gameplay goes.
It seems NHL 20 made leaps and bounds this year as far as franchise goes.

Hopefully they can learn from each other for '21 and improve in the areas they need it.


Edit: My 1000th post!

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring.

There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success.

As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game.

For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that.

There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games.

But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else.

At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play.

A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

[PeoplesChampGB]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring.

There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success.

As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game.

For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that.

There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games.

But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else.

At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play.

A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

Except the fact that PS3 NHL played lightyears better than this gen. But you do you...……...

[sfpxgalaxy]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

For the lazier ones, the single reason is "player separation".

I think we can all agree.

I would like to hear what devs have to say about this issue. Have they ever said anything about it ?
I have the feeling that their AI does not respond well to an increased player separation and that you end up with multiple breakaways and unrealistic odd man rushes.

Maybe it's just to please the online players ? Parity in online gaming is important so I guess it may be a factor.

[MizzouRah]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

I would like them to incorporate the Madden trait system into the NHL series. I believe that would add the player separation we all want and crave.

Something like Ovi would have an x-factor for sniper or something which after 5 shots on goal or something (just an example) he gets a boost to accuracy and shot speed.

The Madden x-factor and superstar traits really enhance player separation, I completely have to change my play calling when someone like Aaron Donald's x-factor is activated.

Would be great to see a goalie like Ben Bishop have an x-factor activate when he stops a breakaway, making his side to side movement and glove saves quicker - or something like that.

[jake19ny]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring.

There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success.

As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game.

For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that.

There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games.

But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else.

At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play.

A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

I did ask for people’s thoughts so thanks for sharing yours. Not sure I agree that our expectations are too high and we should just enjoy the arcade style game they release each year with minimal effort or just not buy it but fair enough....I will concede your point if EA drops the NHL from their product and just released EA Hockey. Don’t take the name of a major sports league and advertise your game as if it is to represent that league when your game plays in no way shape or form like the NHL.....don’t use actual NHL players and advertise them to sell your game when every player in the game is virtually one in the same. Remember for years EA sports used the motto “if it’s in the game...it’s in the game” but it never really was. Make a generic hockey game make it as arcadey as they want and then we won’t complain or write about it.

[Grentthealien]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

Except the fact that PS3 NHL played lightyears better than this gen. But you do you...……...

I’m not sure if I agree with this statement. I watched Twitch streamer Tougie 24 replay every NHL from 92 to 19 in a 16 hour stream and the 360/PS3 era frustrated him the most. I’d have to replay them myself to see if I feel that way, but sometimes I think those games might be over glorified.

In the end every year I get the game I am constantly tinkering with the difficulty and sliders to get the game as close to the way I’d like it to play as I can. I’m an offline guy mostly so I have the choice to not have to tolerate the base sliders. Unfortunately online players have to deal with them.

[The EVHL]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

The 16 bit era was better because hockey enthusiasts didn’t pretend that a console sports video game was a sim. It was just fun or not fun. As graphics got better, which is a million times easier to do than AI, the result was an uncanny valley for folks overly concerned with realism. As it looks more real, the aspects that miss the mark are more glaring.



There has never been a hockey sim on the consoles. There have been a series of fun games that we accepted the limitations of so we could enjoy the game. Also, hockey has been more popular in video games than real life TV because those older games were fast and violent. Non-hockey fans have been a huge part of video game hockey’s success.



As the games got more real, interest dropped. EA is fully aware that they make more money from an arcade hockey game than they can from sim. One reason is that the flow of the game makes AI harder than they can handle, so they do what they can, and are now, once again, adding more arcade elements to the game.



For casual sports gaming fans, NHL 20 is damn near a masterpiece. This isn’t to say you should enjoy it. It’s clearly a terrible game in your eyes. But it is liked by many others, even if OS does not reflect that.



There is no exclusive contract. Neither 2K nor anyone else believe they can compete with EA. Part of the reason is that the one area that they might be able to exploit EA is in realism. But I believe they know they are just as limited as EA, and worse, they would be going after a much smaller marketshare. To really compete, they would have to invest in things like Pond Hockey, a mode I loved in old 2K games.



But, yes, you have accurately described why you don’t like this game, nor any of the recent EA releases. Everything you mention is an annual issue. What’s weird is that you will write this same thing next year for NHL 21. There are a lot of games I know I won’t like, but I don’t write about them. I focus on something else.



At least with Madden folks can claim exclusivity as an offense by EA that deprived them of the deep sim they want. With hockey, literally no one wants to make the game you want to play.



A better tactic might be to do something like Armor and Sword. Be realistic With expectations, be as positive as you can, and then write about things you would like to see in the game. Stop making negativity a sport. Try to create an atmosphere in which devs feel welcome here. Build a rapport with them. As it is now, when they have meetings about what to do, OS is just cesspool of negativity that no one is invested in appeasing.

How does a game get better without criticism? How should one write a critical post without just being called a complainer? Jake brings up many valid legacy issues that have been present for years, but he shouldn’t be allowed to express that it’s still disappointing to see said legacy issues?

A lack of neutral zone play, a lack of board play, and AI that are blatantly programmed in two different ways that make it absolutely frustrating to make even the simplest of plays with user teammate AI would be the equivalent of user madden AI not being able to run the correct direction on a screen play. It’s just fundamentally not sound hockey, and the least they could do is have the AI do very simple things like pressure the puck in the NZ and get to the boards correctly for a breakout.

At the end of the day, improvement won’t happen without proper feedback. If the devs are scared to come here because of this post, then they aren’t exactly wanting feedback imo. This post was far from insulting. It laid out consistent problems this series has faced over the years, problems the sim community has long talked about, and explained why the user experience isn’t satisfactory for him due to said problems.

Everything I know about life, sports, business, etc. has taught me that you can’t expect improvements out of someone if you don’t explain what you’re wanting to see change for the better. I guess your solution is for the devs to stop coming here due to a dead forum rather a critical one full of feedback?

Lastly, he outlined everything he wants in the game, and has been wanting in the game for 15 years. He obviously still plays the series, maybe not as an annual purchaser, but he’s outlining what he’s wanting to see as a potential customer. Next time someone wants to post literally anything that isn’t 100% praising the game, should we send it to you prior to posting for QA to make sure we’re not giving too much feedback? It’d sure be a boring, terrible shame if anyone here tried to have a different opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[The EVHL]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

I’m not sure if I agree with this statement. I watched Twitch streamer Tougie 24 replay every NHL from 92 to 19 in a 16 hour stream and the 360/PS3 era frustrated him the most. I’d have to replay them myself to see if I feel that way, but sometimes I think those games might be over glorified.



In the end every year I get the game I am constantly tinkering with the difficulty and sliders to get the game as close to the way I’d like it to play as I can. I’m an offline guy mostly so I have the choice to not have to tolerate the base sliders. Unfortunately online players have to deal with them.

Obviously when you’re used to playing the new games, older ones will be more frustrating. 13-legacy had many frustrating aspects due to how severely limiting the skating engine was. TPS allowed zero lateral movement when skating backwards, making the game look like bubble hockey where everyone is skating in straight lines.

However, going back and playing NHL 14-15, it’s easily noticeable how much more helpful your AI are when playing offline. This was before HUT streamers literally ruined the user AI by complaint about the “skill zone” leading to AI that stand still and do nothing more than not. In these games, player locking (something I used to love doing in offline NHL games) was actually fun and reasonable to do. If I were to do that in the new game, I’d see next to useless AI getting 100% outplayed by their CPU counter-parts and it’s be a less than enjoyable experience.

Was NHL 14 frustrating? Of course! Getting used to the game mechanics of an old engine will naturally be frustrating. Was it engaging and fun? Definitely saw more immersive AI, presentation elements, and fundamental hockey so I’d say yes to both of those.

I think when we dissect the feedback of this game, you really have to treat online and offline as separate entities. NHL 09-11 was easily the “glory days” of the EASHL. The game mechanics were clearly behind, but the fun factor of a vibrant, competitor, and hopping community was no-doubt why people still bring those games up. NHL 13-legacy saw the offline side of the series during that gen really shine. Presentation and game mechanics kept taking leaps forward, and I thought 15-legacy both gave us really polished products for that gen. Again, no denying the better teammate AI in those games, and unfortunately the next-gen wasn’t able to carry any of that momentum over.

Online for 13-legacy was pretty meh. TPS ruined the game for many, both sim and arcade, as the engine wasn’t fun for either and really started making it a chore to play in a competitive environment.

All in all, NHL has been a series of peaks and valleys. One thing that’s been consistent though, is the absolute lack of NZ pressure. For those who even moderately study the game, you would know how much NZ pressure affects offensive success, and it really is a problem to not have that accurately represented in the series. I’d like to see much more aggressive gaps played at the offensive blueline and way more aggression by backchecking forwards in the NZ to help defenders play tight gaps.

I’ve found a way to artificially create that feeling through the use of strategy adjustments, but it does require the use of season mode or play now, as you can’t edit strats for opponents in franchise mode, making the game mode literally unplayable for me.

I need constant pressure on me to make this game even remotely hard. I want to have to earn my time and space rather than have it given by default, as that makes for a very stale game of 3-on-2 rushes resulting in high percentage shots and lots of screens. I actually don’t understand how anybody could play the default strats CPU in this game as it’s so cookie-cutter and boring. I guess sliders can make you miss the net and bobble passes at a super artificially-raised rate, but I don’t find that experience at all engaging nor fun (not to say I don’t use sliders).

Hopefully 21 will address the AI a lot more than 20, as I really feel like their actual game mechanics and features are at a really solid point. If the AI is improved for 21, we could see an absolutely exceptional hockey experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[jake19ny]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

Obviously when you’re used to playing the new games, older ones will be more frustrating. 13-legacy had many frustrating aspects due to how severely limiting the skating engine was. TPS allowed zero lateral movement when skating backwards, making the game look like bubble hockey where everyone is skating in straight lines.

However, going back and playing NHL 14-15, it’s easily noticeable how much more helpful your AI are when playing offline. This was before HUT streamers literally ruined the user AI by complaint about the “skill zone” leading to AI that stand still and do nothing more than not. In these games, player locking (something I used to love doing in offline NHL games) was actually fun and reasonable to do. If I were to do that in the new game, I’d see next to useless AI getting 100% outplayed by their CPU counter-parts and it’s be a less than enjoyable experience.

Was NHL 14 frustrating? Of course! Getting used to the game mechanics of an old engine will naturally be frustrating. Was it engaging and fun? Definitely saw more immersive AI, presentation elements, and fundamental hockey so I’d say yes to both of those.

I think when we dissect the feedback of this game, you really have to treat online and offline as separate entities. NHL 09-11 was easily the “glory days” of the EASHL. The game mechanics were clearly behind, but the fun factor of a vibrant, competitor, and hopping community was no-doubt why people still bring those games up. NHL 13-legacy saw the offline side of the series during that gen really shine. Presentation and game mechanics kept taking leaps forward, and I thought 15-legacy both gave us really polished products for that gen. Again, no denying the better teammate AI in those games, and unfortunately the next-gen wasn’t able to carry any of that momentum over.

Online for 13-legacy was pretty meh. TPS ruined the game for many, both sim and arcade, as the engine wasn’t fun for either and really started making it a chore to play in a competitive environment.

All in all, NHL has been a series of peaks and valleys. One thing that’s been consistent though, is the absolute lack of NZ pressure. For those who even moderately study the game, you would know how much NZ pressure affects offensive success, and it really is a problem to not have that accurately represented in the series. I’d like to see much more aggressive gaps played at the offensive blueline and way more aggression by backchecking forwards in the NZ to help defenders play tight gaps.

I’ve found a way to artificially create that feeling through the use of strategy adjustments, but it does require the use of season mode or play now, as you can’t edit strats for opponents in franchise mode, making the game mode literally unplayable for me.

I need constant pressure on me to make this game even remotely hard. I want to have to earn my time and space rather than have it given by default, as that makes for a very stale game of 3-on-2 rushes resulting in high percentage shots and lots of screens. I actually don’t understand how anybody could play the default strats CPU in this game as it’s so cookie-cutter and boring. I guess sliders can make you miss the net and bobble passes at a super artificially-raised rate, but I don’t find that experience at all engaging nor fun (not to say I don’t use sliders).

Hopefully 21 will address the AI a lot more than 20, as I really feel like their actual game mechanics and features are at a really solid point. If the AI is improved for 21, we could see an absolutely exceptional hockey experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

NHL 14 on the PS3 was the last release I was able make it through and enjoy a full season of hockey. It also had the ability to share rosters (no thanks to EA) and import custom music and goal horns....3 things inexcusably absent on current gen

[oilersfan99]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

I do agree with devs not wanting to go to certain boards and posts because they are just people complaining and whining about things and really not contributing anything at all. The OP post and most posts are good, solid constructive criticism and always have been which is why I actually read his posts.

The sad truth is though that the developers do not listen at all and if they do, its adding so many stupid gimmicky things. There is very little point of having an intro to the game with your players acting like morons in the 3s game when the game play is trash. Not much point in having 5 to 10 new celebrations for eashl when the ai is atrocious on the best day.

I wish they would skip any and all upgrades and put a full cycle of development into reprogramming the ai so that it is competent and actually help but not overpower. They also really need to have an online ai and offline ai. I get not wanting people to skill zone in hut and versus but you should have solid ai to play an offline game so there arent players skating around like they dont know where to go.

Keep posting great posts OP, maybe one day they'll listen

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

[mikey87]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

Jayhawker's post in this thread might be one of the worst I've ever read, but unfortunately there's a seed of truth in it. (Repeatedly) pointing out the flaws in this game is not going to change anything, as we have learned from developer comments. I remember a comment by a dev in another forum stating that "you have to be able to pick your favorite player and score a goal or deck any other player in the game". That's why all the player ratings are so even and even if they wouldn't be, current game engine allows players to act according to the strategy only, there's nothing for individual players to separate them from others. So if you are waiting for EA to produce a realistic representation of hockey, you just might want to think again. It is not gonna happen.

I understand why the offline players (that's what I used to be, until I just had to give up) keep asking for more realistic game, and it's totally fine to do it, but for that you just have to look elsewhere. EA's NHL series has not been, is not, and will never be for us.

[The EVHL]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

Jayhawker's post in this thread might be one of the worst I've ever read, but unfortunately there's a seed of truth in it. (Repeatedly) pointing out the flaws in this game is not going to change anything, as we have learned from developer comments. I remember a comment by a dev in another forum stating that "you have to be able to pick your favorite player and score a goal or deck any other player in the game". That's why all the player ratings are so even and even if they wouldn't be, current game engine allows players to act according to the strategy only, there's nothing for individual players to separate them from others. So if you are waiting for EA to produce a realistic representation of hockey, you just might want to think again. It is not gonna happen.

I understand why the offline players (that's what I used to be, until I just had to give up) keep asking for more realistic game, and it's totally fine to do it, but for that you just have to look elsewhere. EA's NHL series has not been, is not, and will never be for us.

I think the problem is the marketing team, which is why we need to continue voicing our opinions. They base priority (in theory) off of the quanity of asks and what they think people want. We should be asking for better AI every single year, regardless of how possible it is. I really don't see an issue with constructively asking for improvements year after year. It's no worse than defending complacency year after year, and neither should get you labeled into a category. If you like the game, great! I want to hear your feedback. If you hate the game, okay. I want to hear your feedback.

I've gotten more enjoyment out of sports games recently by trying to take a different approach based on positive feedback I've read on these forums. I'd like to think a more critical post does the same for people that love the game. I don't want them to hate it, but maybe it'll make them at least see what we're seeing, and then they can at least understand our perspective. I'm not asking them to agree with me, nor like the game any less, I'd just appreciate someone trying to understand our POV rather than dismiss a post for "negativity" without trying to have a constructive dialogue. I don't dismiss casual hockey fans for liking NHL has a casual experience. It's a great casual experience if you don't study the sport, and are just looking to score a few goals then turn the game off. The mechanics and features are there in this series, the AI just needs an overhaul to truly deliver a complete hockey experience, and i genuinely believe this is EA's best "foundation" if you will out of all of their sports offerings. I think many here don't disagree that the actual game mechanics are "bad" but I think most can agree the full package for even a moderate fan who has experience playing/watching for years isn't where it should be. If we're not the target audience, I'd love to keep providing as much constructive feedback to try and prove that there is a market for the more hardcore hockey fans, and also to show that we want to help, not hate the game at every turn.

[jake19ny]

Re: The single reason NHL 20 and the series is unplayable

Jayhawker's post in this thread might be one of the worst I've ever read, but unfortunately there's a seed of truth in it. (Repeatedly) pointing out the flaws in this game is not going to change anything, as we have learned from developer comments. I remember a comment by a dev in another forum stating that "you have to be able to pick your favorite player and score a goal or deck any other player in the game". That's why all the player ratings are so even and even if they wouldn't be, current game engine allows players to act according to the strategy only, there's nothing for individual players to separate them from others. So if you are waiting for EA to produce a realistic representation of hockey, you just might want to think again. It is not gonna happen.

I understand why the offline players (that's what I used to be, until I just had to give up) keep asking for more realistic game, and it's totally fine to do it, but for that you just have to look elsewhere. EA's NHL series has not been, is not, and will never be for us.

You are right. EA has made it clear that they are heading in an arcade like only direction. The ridiculously over the top new commentary and exaggerated overlays make that very clear. I just don’t understand why they can’t do both.
I don’t understand why they always make a one size fits all tuner or patch. When something’s wrong with the online game they tune it and it destroys a part of the offline game. I know they allow the use of previous tuners but my experience has been that the game never plays the same once a new tuner comes out....

Likewise why not have separate rosters for online and offline. If they want player parody online then have it but give us offline rosters with the player separation we want and quite frankly should be in the offline game.

As far as those seeking an arcade like offline experience make those settings of arcade through true sim actually mean what they say.

Yes that’s extra work but more people would enjoy this game on and off line if they did those things above rather then add in some of these gimmick modes that wear thin a month after release.

Bottom line is they don’t care about us hardcore sim guys and I know I’m shouting at the sky.