User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

[lawspecter816]

Hello everyone,

just wanted to post one impression/issue I have and see if anyone else thinks similar and maybe is even able to provide a "fix":

User QB play: Over the years I got pretty good at reading coverages and in particular quick post snap reads. To be honest: This is in my opinion the number one skill for a QB to have. Best examples are Brady and Manning: Both did never have the most spectacular arm. But they did excel at the mental part of being a QB.

This mental part however, is completely done by the user when playing offense. Rating do not play a role in this. There begins my problem in Franchise: I do not need an Elite QB. All I need is a decently accurate QB to do most things I want to do on the field. If he is a bit athletic as well, that's a plus. Best example: Justin Fields. He has a big arm, is rather accurate and athletic. But in real life he has major problems with the mental part, in particular reading defenses quick enough and getting rid of the ball quick enough. These flaws do not apply if I user him, however. Therefore I could be Elite with him from the get go (if would not have such a bad supporting cast in Chicago).

I think you understand where my problem ist. Anyone feels similar? Actually that's not a critiscim of EA here. It is hard to imagine how to implement a more rating based approach in User QB play without handcuffing the game play too much.

[SolidSquid]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Hello everyone,

just wanted to post one impression/issue I have and see if anyone else thinks similar and maybe is even able to provide a "fix":

User QB play: Over the years I got pretty good at reading coverages and in particular quick post snap reads. To be honest: This is in my opinion the number one skill for a QB to have. Best examples are Brady and Manning: Both did never have the most spectacular arm. But they did excel at the mental part of being a QB.

This mental part however, is completely done by the user when playing offense. Rating do not play a role in this. There begins my problem in Franchise: I do not need an Elite QB. All I need is a decently accurate QB to do most things I want to do on the field. If he is a bit athletic as well, that's a plus. Best example: Justin Fields. He has a big arm, is rather accurate and athletic. But in real life he has major problems with the mental part, in particular reading defenses quick enough and getting rid of the ball quick enough. These flaws do not apply if I user him, however. Therefore I could be Elite with him from the get go (if would not have such a bad supporting cast in Chicago).

I think you understand where my problem ist. Anyone feels similar? Actually that's not a critiscim of EA here. It is hard to imagine how to implement a more rating based approach in User QB play without handcuffing the game play too much.

The best thing madden can do for QB is the vision cone or some kind of vision mechanic. I know it was controversial bc some people found it hard but it was the most innovative they’ve done. Move it with the right stick or use one of the triggers and the receiver icon to “snap” to that receiver.

The god view on madden makes it to easy to quickly read the defense and get the ball out, and they try to alleviate this by making pass blocking suck even if the offensive line has good ratings(at least on all-madden)

[iceman43]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Hello everyone,



just wanted to post one impression/issue I have and see if anyone else thinks similar and maybe is even able to provide a "fix":



User QB play: Over the years I got pretty good at reading coverages and in particular quick post snap reads. To be honest: This is in my opinion the number one skill for a QB to have. Best examples are Brady and Manning: Both did never have the most spectacular arm. But they did excel at the mental part of being a QB.



This mental part however, is completely done by the user when playing offense. Rating do not play a role in this. There begins my problem in Franchise: I do not need an Elite QB. All I need is a decently accurate QB to do most things I want to do on the field. If he is a bit athletic as well, that's a plus. Best example: Justin Fields. He has a big arm, is rather accurate and athletic. But in real life he has major problems with the mental part, in particular reading defenses quick enough and getting rid of the ball quick enough. These flaws do not apply if I user him, however. Therefore I could be Elite with him from the get go (if would not have such a bad supporting cast in Chicago).



I think you understand where my problem ist. Anyone feels similar? Actually that's not a critiscim of EA here. It is hard to imagine how to implement a more rating based approach in User QB play without handcuffing the game play too much.

They did have a fix for that with the vision cone yrs ago but people hated it. But it was rhe most realistic thing that people didn't want. They claim they want simulation but when it was really implemented they complained so EA took it out

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[lawspecter816]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Heard about the vision cone before. But that was before I started with Madden.

I tried to use the zoom cam for passing. But contrary to the "god view" in standard cam I am under the impression that you see not enough of the field.. especially to the outside. Also the higher difficulty for passing would influence all the QB the same.. ideally I would like some differentiation.. right now, to be honest, in Franchise it is just not worth it to invest into a top tier QB. I do it nonetheless to keep things balanced...

[cch99]

User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Unfortunately I think the only way around this is a mechanic that’s ratings based and not user based which is obviously something the competitive crowd would freak about. The vision cone while a neat mechanic is still user-based so a good user can be good with a poor quarterback. In my opinion quarterbacks with less awareness need to have more of a penalty when throwing under pressure and just be less accurate in general. Again something the competitive crowd won’t go for and we already know they won’t make it so just for franchise mode or simulation mode.


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[iceman43]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Unfortunately I think the only way around this is a mechanic that’s ratings based and not user based which is obviously something the competitive crowd would freak about. The vision cone while a neat mechanic is still user-based so a good user can be good with a poor quarterback. In my opinion quarterbacks with less awareness need to have more of a penalty when throwing under pressure and just be less accurate in general. Again something the competitive crowd won’t go for and we already know they won’t make it so just for franchise mode or simulation mode.


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Not really with the vision cone mediocre qbs had a thin cone that turned slower so it was definitely ratings based not user based that's why people hated because they said they could see their player open but the qb couldn't because his vision cone was not turned to him or was fast enough. Have you actually played it with a bad qb it was hard

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[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

The only thing that would remotely make QB similar to RL would be making it VR. Giving users the god mode view eliminates the blind side, prevents the defense from following the QBs eyes or obstructing his vision, eliminates most weather effects, and makes it just as easy to read defenses as 5'10 Kyler Murray as 6'6 Justin Herbert.


I personally don't see the problem in a user being able to outperform the RL player by using their brain - that's the whole reason I enjoy playing the video game. But the user has advantages in the interface that the RL player never will.

[Rack316]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

They could have a sort of vision attribute for QB's, and blur out parts of the screen where his vision attribute is weak. Sort of like the squiggly lines when the other team has momentum but without the shaking.

Or maybe just actually make it blurry. Imagine that plus the other team having momentum... I don't know about you but if the defense were blurred out in spots while also having squiggly lines all over the field I'd definitely feel like a rookie QB.

As the QB progresses (not all QB's obviously) the defense gets clearer and clearer.

[lawspecter816]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

The only thing that would remotely make QB similar to RL would be making it VR. Giving users the god mode view eliminates the blind side, prevents the defense from following the QBs eyes or obstructing his vision, eliminates most weather effects, and makes it just as easy to read defenses as 5'10 Kyler Murray as 6'6 Justin Herbert.


I personally don't see the problem in a user being able to outperform the RL player by using their brain - that's the whole reason I enjoy playing the video game. But the user has advantages in the interface that the RL player never will.

Totally see you point. It is especially drastic with play action: We can look at the defense and the receivers while the QB has its back to the play because of the fake handoff (at least in PA from under center).

However, I think it is really, really difficult to nail this aspect of the game in a video game.

[mtmetcalfe]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Hello everyone,

just wanted to post one impression/issue I have and see if anyone else thinks similar and maybe is even able to provide a "fix":

User QB play: Over the years I got pretty good at reading coverages and in particular quick post snap reads. To be honest: This is in my opinion the number one skill for a QB to have. Best examples are Brady and Manning: Both did never have the most spectacular arm. But they did excel at the mental part of being a QB.

This mental part however, is completely done by the user when playing offense. Rating do not play a role in this. There begins my problem in Franchise: I do not need an Elite QB. All I need is a decently accurate QB to do most things I want to do on the field. If he is a bit athletic as well, that's a plus. Best example: Justin Fields. He has a big arm, is rather accurate and athletic. But in real life he has major problems with the mental part, in particular reading defenses quick enough and getting rid of the ball quick enough. These flaws do not apply if I user him, however. Therefore I could be Elite with him from the get go (if would not have such a bad supporting cast in Chicago).

I think you understand where my problem ist. Anyone feels similar? Actually that's not a critiscim of EA here. It is hard to imagine how to implement a more rating based approach in User QB play without handcuffing the game play too much.

I have felt this is one of the bigger problems with the simulation aspect in Madden for years. I don’t think it really gets talked about much because it’s probably something that they’ll never improve on. Quarterback is definitely the position where this is the biggest problem but you can make a case for other postion such as runningback.

[lawspecter816]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Yeah, it certainly also applies for the RB position and to even less a degree to Receivers after the catch and on D. It also applies to other sports games (e.g. for midfielders in soccer or for the point guard in basketball). However, in the QB position it so very drastic and decisive, as it is the core of the position. And as the QB position is the most important position in football...

[El_Tercero]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

What game mode are you playing in? Competitive or Sim? From my experience in Sim mode I can tell the difference between usering someone like Rodgers compared to a lesser talented QB.

[cch99]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

Not really with the vision cone mediocre qbs had a thin cone that turned slower so it was definitely ratings based not user based that's why people hated because they said they could see their player open but the qb couldn't because his vision cone was not turned to him or was fast enough. Have you actually played it with a bad qb it was hard

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I struggled with the vision cone no matter how good the quarterback was so good or bad it didn't make much of a difference. Just because you or I weren't good with it if someone had good quick twitch skills I would think they could eventually get pretty good. Sure it would make a difference between good and bad and definitely differentiated more than as it is now but there was still to much user element for me. I didn't use it because it was just too hard in general, not because it was too hard with bad quarterbacks.

I agree that this is probably the toughest thing to nail down.

What about a mechanic where only the first couple reads show a button to press and the others show a question mark. And it would change so say the slot wasn't always a similar press so you couldn't just memorize the play from practice. With this they'd also need to add more animations for different missed throws instead of just adding more picks as well.

[Kevin McKoy]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

I would say the equalizer is the accuracy slider. Bump it down to about 15, and play with Zach Wilson and tell me it's just as easy as it is with Mahommes. It doesn't matter what you can see if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. You also need a pash rush, something else that can be achieved with sliders. The last ingredient is pass coverage that is bug free and works properly. Not 3 match double teaming the corner route on a smash play out out of a 2x2 formation, as an example.

If all three are aligned, you aren't going to think the game is too easy, I promise you that.

[Kevin McKoy]

Re: User QB play - major issue with Madden/Football games?

I would say the equalizer is the accuracy slider. Bump it down to about 15, and play with Zach Wilson and tell me it's just as easy as it is with Mahommes. It doesn't matter what you can see if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. You also need a pash rush, something else that can be achieved with sliders. The last ingredient is pass coverage that is bug free and works properly. Not 3 match double teaming the corner route out of a 2x2 formation, as an example.

If all three are aligned, you aren't going to think the game is too easy, I promise you that.

Yeah, I may have saw x was open, but it doesn't matter if Myles Garrett just beat my 73ovr tackle and is hitting me in the mouth. That's my take anyway.