HoF ballot released...

[Misfit]

I think Henderson and Rice make it in. Blyleven didn't get near enough support last year to make it this year. I don't think Raines has a shot either and I'm curious to see how much of the vote he ends up getting. I don't think Smith, Dawson, or Morris will ever get enough support to get in.

[skitch]

Andre Dawson and Rickey Henderson are the shoe-ins, IMO. I think Mark McGwire should eventually be in the Hall, but it will more than likely take longer than expected when he retired. Some of the names on this list are downright laughable... Mo Vaughn? Jay Bell?

[Sandman42]

For those that don't think Tim Raines should make the HoF I urge you to read this.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-hall-of-fame/

[CMH]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sandman42

For those that don't think Tim Raines should make the HoF I urge you to read this. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-hall-of-fame/

I'm all for backing Tim Raines but I can not support this article. The first paragraph alone screams biased journalism.

Very first sentence:

Last year, I started a website dedicated to the baseball idol of my youth, Tim Raines.

The guy is his idol. Why wouldn't he believe he was a Hall of Famer?

I invited several like-minded fans to contribute their thoughts and analysis to the site...

Oh, wow. Rather than trying to get the argument against and consider the possibility that he might not be a Hall of Famer, the writer invites other like-minded fans to support his claim.

I can win any argument if everything I wrote supported those same two themes.

[CMH]

Goodness, the more I just skim over this the more I can see FJM destroying this piece.

Tim Raines is regarded first and foremost as a leadoff hitter. But is being considered one of the greatest leadoff hitters of all-time enough to warrant being in the Hall of Fame?
In order to answer that question, we need to know what is a Hall of Fame leadoff hitter.

Wouldn't a Hall of Fame leadoff hitter be a player first and foremost regarded as a leadoff hitter and considered one of the greatest leadoff hitters of all-time? Or, are we just not sure what a leadoff hitter is either?

What if we grabbed all the Hall of Fame leadoff batters for the Retrosheet years? (I put in a minimum of 300 career plate appearances as the No. 1 hitter to exclude part-timers, pinch hitters, and pitchers.)

300 is the minimum to exclude part-timers, pinch hitters, and pitchers? 300 plate appearances wouldn't even qualify you for a batting title in a single season. We're supposed to be looking at potential Hall of Fame leadoff hitters, which means guys that were leadoff hitters throughout their careers, and within a quick sentence, that has been minimized to guys that batted half a season as a leadoff hitter in their 15 year careers.

Remember, we are only looking at performances while batting in the leadoff position.

Yes, we know. That's why you only included 300 plate appearances as a leadoff hitter. Did he think I might have thought a spot in the fourth hole might have snuck in there somewhere. Or maybe it did and by reminding me that he's only counting leadoff plate appearances, I'll take his word and ignore the possibility.

Some may not be happy with that kind of definition. Notably absent are Rickey Henderson and Pete Rose, so I created a second group of Hall of Fame type players. The criteria was: (1) at least 2000 plate appearances in the leadoff slot, (2) in the Hall of Fame or likely to be in the Hall of Fame, (3) excluding shortstops and Richie Ashburn. I included this last requirement because shortstops are voted in large part for their fielding, and a large portion of Ashburn's career took place prior to the Retrosheet years.

Why even have the 300 plate appearances group if you're going to create a 2,000 plate appearance group? I don't even have to comment on the rest, it's borderline crazy.

Derek Jeter is Derek Jeter.

And?

As we've seen, Tim Raines compares favorably to Hall of Fame leadoff hitters. But, Raines also spent a substantial portion of his time as a No. 3 hitter. Surely, he can't hold his own with those hitters, right? Wrong.

And...I'm done.

The article started out about a guy being voted in because he was one of the greatest leadoff hitters and now he wants to compare him to other no. 3 hitters. What was the purpose of comparing him to leadoff hitters then? Perhaps, in the mean time, he should also compare Tim Raines to guys that batted ninth.

[snepp]

I'll give Tango a mulligan on this, everything else he does is ridiculously good.

[funky_chicken]

From the names on the list the ones I think should be in the hall are

Rickey Henderson
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy
Don Mattingly
Lee Smith

[EnigmaNemesis]

Put in Rice dammit ... everyone else on that list has plenty of years of eligibility left.