How does a forkball/split-fingered pitch work?

[jawgee]

Every time I hear a baseball announcer discuss the forkball/split-fingered pitch, I hear it described as having "tumbling action". What in the heck does that really mean? What does "tumbling" really mean - forward spin or backward spin?

Having thrown a forkball in "real life" and watching others throw it, I don't see how a forkball can have any forward spin like a curveball. So my best explanation is that the ball ends up spinning like a badly thrown knuckeball with some backward spin. Since it doesn't have nearly as much backward spin as a 4-seam fastball, the ball sinks due to gravity. A forkball would also work as an offspeed/changeup pitch as the ball usually slips through the wider-gripped fingers. A split-fingered fastball should have more speed than a forkball and usually less drop...unless you're Mike Scott or Roger Clemens.

This is where I get confused as I don't know how Clemens was able to throw a split-fingered fastball over 90mph and still have it drop as much as it did. I mean, I can't even get my batting practice fastball (around 70mph) drop as much as his splitter. How does his splitter drop so much? Am I basically correct in my explanation of these pitches?

Thanks,
jawgee

[Blzer]

Re: How does a forkball/split-fingered pitch work?

So my best explanation is that the ball ends up spinning like a badly thrown knuckeball with some backward spin. Since it doesn't have nearly as much backward spin as a 4-seam fastball, the ball sinks due to gravity.

This is exactly it.

The truth is, a splitter doesn't really drop that much. Seeing pitches move on TV is somewhat of an illusion because of the wide shot we get of the pitcher and batter looking almost next to each other when they're really 60 feet apart. I remember Vasgergian last year saying that he was talking to Bard about catching Maddux and asking him how hard it is to catch his two-seamer because of its movement, and he says that while it has incredible movement, it's not like what you see on TV, which makes sense.

But the reality is that it doesn't need to drop two feet... just four inches is enough. All that you need to do is convince the hitter that you're throwing a fastball, and anything more than four inches of dropping action is a guaranteed whiff (assuming they were swinging for where they thought the ball was going to go). A six inch break (with that speed) is phenomenal.

A forkball is actually almost a knuckleball, only it has pre-determined dropping movement. It really is a slower pitch, thus you can get more exaggerated movement. It's not my favorite of pitches to throw (or for pitchers to have), but if they don't have a circle changeup, this is a great substitute.

As for Clemens, he is a freak of nature. That's why he is the only one that can do it and no one else can... it's not easy. It's probably something that he's practiced since his college days and he is the only one to truly perfect it. Urbina's splitter was straight nasty as well.

[kehlis]

Re: How does a forkball/split-fingered pitch work?

The truth is, a splitter doesn't really drop that much.

I'll disagree with this specific point even though I agree with everything said after this. The way I threw my splitter was a different grip than what I could find on the internet so I couldn't show a picture, but it is the exact grip Tim Hudson uses. (Yes, as an A's fan I did copy it from him).

But what I did when I threw it, was to throw it like a screwball, so I would spin my arm the opposite direction as I threw it. This created not only a devastating sink (when working) but also a little bit of a tail. (Its also important to not that i didn't throw from straight over the top but more 3/4). It was also very difficult for me to control and my catcher hated calling it because more often than not it ended up in the dirt. But when it was on it was a very difficult pitch to hit.

But like Blzer said, a huge sink isn't necessary for a pitch to be effective, but I disagree with saying a splitter doesn't sink that much.

When you hear of a pitcher that has arm trouble because of their splitter, this is why. It is a very unnatural release.

[Blzer]

Re: How does a forkball/split-fingered pitch work?

But like Blzer said, a huge sink isn't necessary for a pitch to be effective, but I disagree with saying a splitter doesn't sink that much.

Well, four - six inches technically is a lot of break, but what I mean is that it's really not the same thing that you think you're seeing on TV.

They probably do drop more than that, but honestly you don't want it to drop that much. You want to deceive the hitter to thinking that you're throwing a fastball, and the problem with some guys is they can't get theirs to break late enough or it's breaking too much too early.

By saying that "it doesn't sink that much," I hope that you didn't think I was inferring that it's an inferior pitch to something else. If mastered and if you're a mid-/high-90s fastball thrower, you're devastating on the mound.

[jawgee]

Re: How does a forkball/split-fingered pitch work?

...When you hear of a pitcher that has arm trouble because of their splitter, this is why. It is a very unnatural release.

Thanks for the discussion, guys. Most of it makes sense to me. The above quote seems to go against what I remember Roger Craig (the guy who taught Mike Scott the splitter) use to say regarding the splitter. I believe he used to say that the splitter was really easy on the arm as it thrown exactly like a fastball, so no extra strain was placed on the arm when thrown. I guess maybe if you're throwing the splitter like kehlis then I could see major arm trouble in your future.

Thanks,
jawgee

[Misfit]

Re: How does a forkball/split-fingered pitch work?

Well, if you want to know how a forkball works, its all basically drag. By wedging the ball in between your fingers tightly and then releasing the ball at the same speed as a fastball you get a lot of "pull" or drag. This deadens the ball out of the hand and causes it to drop naturally with a slow rotation. The forkball will get a little wiggle to it because you're also putting a lot of pressure on the sides of the ball. This is what makes it most affective. And the backspin plus the seems give it that "tumbling" look to the hitter. For most forkball throwers, as they throw them over and over their fingers get used to it and it becomes easier to split them outside the ball. This ends up working against the pitcher as they lose a lot of that force on the sides of the ball and their fork ends up flattening out and hanging.

Blzer is absolutely right in that you don't want a splitter to drop too much or too soon. A forkball and a splitter are very different. The fork is more like a changeup, meant to deceive with its stunted velocity, where as the split is meant to deceive with its movement. If it drops too much the hitter can usually pick up on it and knows to lay off. Just watch a guy with a splitter late in his career and that's usually what happens.

I don't know how old you are, jawgee, but if you're still in school and looking for something fun, seek out a physics class. You'll likely be able to learn a lot about how physics plays a role in pitching. The college I attended even had a physics course dedicated to baseball that was really interesting.