Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

[beastwork]

What do you guys think about Rondo? I won’t deny that he is quite skilled and extremely athletic. He’s got the wing span of a 6’6”+ guy. Real sprinter speed and quickness. Tenacious effort on the boards and defense. And he is quite good at setting up players for easy shots.

But with all that I’m just not convinced. His shooting ability is questionable but that can be improved (as he has shown over the last 3 years). I just can’t shake the feeling that if you put him on an average team he would look then look very average. He gets A LOT of space due to the fact he has 3 hall of famers on his team. They can’t double him under any circumstance. I really believe he would have a drastic decrease in productivity if he was on another team.

Think of it like this, I keep hearing people place in among the top point guards in the league. Really? What if Chris Paul, Derron Williams, or Steve Nash replaced Rondo on the Celtics? In my mind those 3 point guards are light years better than Rondo.

Again, he is a good player but in my mind grossly overrated.

[Icefist]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I'll agree with you that Rondo is helped out by having such a good team, but I still rank him as an elite point guard. I wouldn't put him above Nash, Williams, or Paul, but I would put him in that category. He is an incredibly gifted athlete and has amazing ball skills. He is one of the fastest players in the NBA, and has the wingspan of a 6'9" guy, but I think his ball skills make him elite. He is a great dribbler, and has an incredible repertoire of layups. He is also a great passer and a very talented defender. If he could develop a good outside game, I would consider him for the title of best point guard, but right now he is just an elite level point guard lacking a key skill.

What do you think about Derrick Rose? Rose does have a better midrange game, but he isn't a good three shooter. In my opinion, Rondo has the edge in nearly every other category. The only question is what Rondo would be able to do on the Bulls. I don't think he would be quite as good statistically, but I also think Rose wouldn't be able to put up Rondo's numbers on the Celts.

I guess it all comes down to personal opinion, but I think Rondo is an elite point guard.

[youvalss]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I think Rondo's problem currently, is that he can't finish. He can tear-drop or lay it in over anybody, but can't finish, at least the past few games. It's like he doesn't complete the motion or something. He must work on it. His FG% could be so much higher! Also his FT% is pretty bad. For a guy who likes to go to the basket, he must work on it. Not to mention his jumper...
In other words, if he could shoot consistently, he'd be so much better.

What I do like about him is that he's always in next-play-mode (or whatever you call it). He never makes a big deal out of a play, as big as it is, always thinking about the next play - and that's his best quality, in my opinion.

[Starlin4Prez]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Well if you watch the Celtics now, the offense runs THROUGH him, when before it ran through Pierce or Allen. On this team or another he would still be doing the same things. He has the lateral quickness to make anyone pay for not respecting his speed and showed in Game 2 of these Finals that he can make the best players pay by putting up a Triple Double against Kobe Bryant.

He averaged 5 rebs a game and 10 assists during the regular season, averaged the most steals per 48 mins in the NBA and was like 3rd or 4th in assists in the league. Given some of his offensive numbers may get a boost from playing with guys like Garnett and Pierce and Allen but you can't deny this guys ability to get to the basket, get rebounds and ability to create oppurtunites with his defense.

Given his offensive skills are not on the level of Paul, Nash, and Williams and he is a poor free throw shooter, that is something he will get better at. Especially seeing the improvements he made on his jumper over the offseason.

Do I think he is better than Williams or Nash RIGHT NOW, no, but they are by no means light years ahead of him. In fact the gap between Williams and Rondo closes every game, especially if the C's win another championship with him at the healm. Which Rondo already has and something that Nash, Williams and Chris Paul do not.

[Brankles]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Rondo benefits greatly from playing with 3 HOFers. If he was asked to run a team a la Deron Williams, Nash or CP3, his efficiency would drop greatly

[Fiasco West]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I think that's unfair to Rondo, he's never been unfortunate enough to play on the current Hornets.

Who was Pau Gasol before playing with the likes of Kobe and Bynum? It's obvious playing with great players makes the game easier for yourself...but you can't say if you take those guys away from him he'd play worse.

Perfect example...Brooks played with Artest and Yao his first starting year. He was pretty much a average PG then...so take those guys away, you expect him to play worse right? He doesn't, he takes the next step and becomes better.

Taking Ray, Pierce, Garnett away could just lead to Rondo getting BETTER NUMBERS. There really is no evidence to say he'd turn into a average PG, in fact the guy has stepped up in their absence at times.

I'm sorry, if Rondo is overrated...has to be another reason than just who he's playing with. Of course playing with those guys make the game easier for him...just like Kobe looks like he's lost a step playing with Pau-Bynum-Odom...but Lebron could put up better numbers playing with less. He just doesn't have to go out and drop 30 on a team for the Lakers to win anymore, he has so much talent around him.

Do I think Rondo is better than Paul or Dwill...no I don't personally, but if someone wanted to argue that now, I really think they could.

[wwharton]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I think that's unfair to Rondo, he's never been unfortunate enough to play on the current Hornets.

Who was Pau Gasol before playing with the likes of Kobe and Bynum? It's obvious playing with great players makes the game easier for yourself...but you can't say if you take those guys away from him he'd play worse.

Perfect example...Brooks played with Artest and Yao his first starting year. He was pretty much a average PG then...so take those guys away, you expect him to play worse right? He doesn't, he takes the next step and becomes better.

Taking Ray, Pierce, Garnett away could just lead to Rondo getting BETTER NUMBERS. There really is no evidence to say he'd turn into a average PG, in fact the guy has stepped up in their absence at times.

I'm sorry, if Rondo is overrated...has to be another reason than just who he's playing with. Of course playing with those guys make the game easier for him...just like Kobe looks like he's lost a step playing with Pau-Bynum-Odom...but Lebron could put up better numbers playing with less. He just doesn't have to go out and drop 30 on a team for the Lakers to win anymore, he has so much talent around him.

Do I think Rondo is better than Paul or Dwill...no I don't personally, but if someone wanted to argue that now, I really think they could.

Not a bad point, but there is reason to believe Rondo specifically would put up worse numbers if he had the role of DWill or CP3. This finals alone has shown that he struggles in half court sets. He does his best when he can get out and run. His shot is so bad that they played 5 feet off of him even when he was around the foul line. That kind of D makes it hard enough to drive, but then he becomes more worried about driving after missing a few FT's bc his FT % is in the toilet. He's in the perfect role for his skill set, but his offense is nowhere near where it'd need to be to be the main focus of a team... I rate him higher overall than Brooks, but offensively Brooks has always been better and it's not even close.

[Pared]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I love these "what-if" threads.

But really... there's no right or wrong in any argument like this.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Magic Johnson would agree with you. Last night during the post game wrap up he was talking about how amazed he was that role players were stepping up in these finals in such a marked manner.

Mentioned Rondo stepping up in Game 2.
Fisher in Game 3.
Davis/Robinson in Game 4.

I don't think Magic knows that Rondo is an all star.

[Vince]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

Not a bad point, but there is reason to believe Rondo specifically would put up worse numbers if he had the role of DWill or CP3. This finals alone has shown that he struggles in half court sets. He does his best when he can get out and run. His shot is so bad that they played 5 feet off of him even when he was around the foul line. That kind of D makes it hard enough to drive, but then he becomes more worried about driving after missing a few FT's bc his FT % is in the toilet. He's in the perfect role for his skill set, but his offense is nowhere near where it'd need to be to be the main focus of a team... I rate him higher overall than Brooks, but offensively Brooks has always been better and it's not even close.

Setting up your teamates is part of being a good offensive point guard, and Rondo dwarfs him in that regard.

[23]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I dont understand why a guys career always has to be judged within his first 4 years as if he is done developing. Almost sounds like a Jason Kidd type to me to be honest.

[Icefist]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

His shot is so bad that they played 5 feet off of him even when he was around the foul line. That kind of D makes it hard enough to drive,

Many teams play "5 feet off of him" and he still manages to drive to the basket and finish with a layup or a pass often enough to be very productive. I think that makes his driving ability even more impressive.

[Fiasco West]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I dont understand why a guys career always has to be judged within his first 4 years as if he is done developing. Almost sounds like a Jason Kidd type to me to be honest.

That's how I see Rondo. I don't want to compare him to a HOF like Kidd...but his skillset is almost a mirror of Kidd, and Kidd has done just fine with it no matter where he goes.

Eventually we are going to see what type of player Rondo really is...until that time though, i'd like to think of him as a Elite PG with what he has accomplished...and how he's played against these PG.

Also, if you are thinking about what Rondo would be without the 'big 3' then we should also think about what the team would be like without Rondo.

[KG]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

I think Rondo's problem currently, is that he can't finish. He can tear-drop or lay it in over anybody, but can't finish, at least the past few games. It's like he doesn't complete the motion or something. He must work on it. His FG% could be so much higher! Also his FT% is pretty bad. For a guy who likes to go to the basket, he must work on it. Not to mention his jumper...
In other words, if he could shoot consistently, he'd be so much better.

What I do like about him is that he's always in next-play-mode (or whatever you call it). He never makes a big deal out of a play, as big as it is, always thinking about the next play - and that's his best quality, in my opinion.

That just isn't true at all. He's one the better finishers for PGs in that he has a 6'9 wingspan, can finish with both hands, and is probably 2nd (and a very close 2nd) to Nash in terms of craftiness around the rim. We all know his sig move but he runs the baseline a lot and catches defenses napping with reverse layups all the time.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Let's evaluate Rondo - I think he's overrated - Prove me wrong

The two main things Rondo needs to do to fit into the Jason Kidd mold:

1) Control the tempo more. Rondo loses a lot of effectiveness in the half court, particularly against a bigger team. He's just as good as anyone in the open court though. He finishes great, he has great court vision and fantastic speed. Problem is, Jason Kidd used to push the tempo all of the time. Rondo needs to do that

2)Free Throws. A guard cannot sniff beyond the 2nd tier if he can't hit free throws. Other guards like Curry, Evans, Rose and Westbrook can surpass Rondo if they improve and his FT shooting doesn't come up to the high 70s. Especially if any of those guys get a great coach--Scott Brooks excepted--to guide them into doing the right things.