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Originally Posted by ojandpizza |
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In defense to Joker’s cast, their biggest issue has been a healthy Murray. He’s not made All-NBA teams, or All-Star teams, and they really managed his work load this year coming back from that injury. But every decent postseason run they’ve had he’s played at an All-Star level guy. Can’t have a dude out there hanging 40+ on teams and also say his help is minimal because of lack of regular season awards.
Gordon, KCP, Brown all had career years. That is largely because they are playing with Jokic, but they are the perfect “role players” to pair next to him. Idk how you split the credit, to me it’s no coincidence that they’ve played their best ball next to Jokic. But at the same time if we’re comparing this to other kinda “carry jobs” I would say their ceiling next to Joker is probably higher than cast mates that played with guys like Bron, KG, or David Robinson in the 90s. Gordon for example has great hands and is one of the best finishers in the league. He needed to learn to cut off Jokic, but having those abilities before building that chemistry made him far better than most “replacement players” they could possibly land as a 4th option level guy. I know the post didn’t mean to break off into comparisons, but in the context of this talk Bron or KG was only going to be able to get so much more out of guys like Mo Williams and say Wally Szczerbiak. Bron similarly had JJ Hickson looking solid, but he was no Aaron Gordon on his own.
On/off splits have valued him as one of (if not the most) valuable players to his teams success since we’ve had those stats. Which you could use to label him as the ultimate “carry” player we’ve seen in this era. But I would argue that stylistically they would likely not be quite as bad as those stats show if they ran more action through Murray through the regular season the way they do in the playoffs and he was actually healthy. Denver was also so good this year that some of those minutes likely include him going to the bench early with a big lead and the back-up squad blowing the lead. For example his on-off splits were even better this year than last year and last year they truly were *** outside him.
I do think Denver’s reliance on Jokic and his impact right now is tops in the league. I said that when I was saying he would have my vote for MVP again if I had a vote. But I do think that changes to an extent in the playoffs. A bigger offensive load for Murray, excellent defense in that last series from Gordon, KCP, Brown. He’s probably got a bit more “help” than it seems. Him being able to maximize those guys and seemingly always make the right plays, the smart plays, is .
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By replacement level I'm speaking more in terms of you can find guys who bring what they do to the floor and Jokic will be just as good with them. And minimal COMPARED to what other top teams bring to the court.
There's no shortage of athletic "bigs". There's no shortage of 3 and d wings. There's no shortage of shooters. Theres no shortage of scoring guards. They are not "unique" in those respects.
This year, they ranked 5th in offensive efficiency. Last year MPJ and Murray didn't even play the ENTIRE season. Where did they rank? 6th. This year they had 53 wins. Last year 48. As you mentioned, this year Murray wasn't 100% to start the season. On top of that, he missed time. Yet, they continued to win. There were 10 games where Murray missed the game completely and Jokic played. They went 8-2 in those games. And that includes wins against the Warriors, Celtics, TWolves, and the Heat. Small sample obviously, but that's an 80% win rate. Lol
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Murray isn't a baller. I like him. It's just that the majority of his value comes when Jokic ISN'T on the floor with him because Jokic raises the floor on this team SO much so that Murray's offense is essentially negligible.
Put another way, on an average to below average team, or a team in need of a bucket getter on the perimeter, Murray would shine. But playing alongside Jokic, his offense isn't so great that it takes the team to another level. So WITH JOKIC...replaceable
Thats not a knock on him. That's just how f****** good the Joker is
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