ESPN Top 100 list

[AlexBrady]

Again, you really can't compare Miller's numbers to today's wing men because the rules were different. Miller could be grabbed and bumped on his patterns more liberally than today's stars are used to. Miller's off-ball activity created openings and space for his teammates to work which doesn't show up in the stats. Teams used to have to do extensive preperation for how they were going to handle the single-double baseline screens Miller ran off of. One of the most feared sequences in the game then.

I would agree that Miller is not a top 10 all time shooting guard. You have to play defense to crack that group. Ray Allen was a more well-rounded player. Mitch Richmond was much stronger and a more versatile scorer.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Surprised this is still going on. I'm all Top 1-100'd out from the discussions over the years.

They need more Nets on the list.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by AlexBrady

Again, you really can't compare Miller's numbers to today's wing men because the rules were different. Miller could be grabbed and bumped on his patterns more liberally than today's stars are used to. Miller's off-ball activity created openings and space for his teammates to work which doesn't show up in the stats. Teams used to have to do extensive preperation for how they were going to handle the single-double baseline screens Miller ran off of. One of the most feared sequences in the game then. I would agree that Miller is not a top 10 all time shooting guard. You have to play defense to crack that group. Ray Allen was a more well-rounded player. Mitch Richmond was much stronger and a more versatile scorer.

Again you can, because it's not so much of a drastic difference that a player would drop 10 points per game because someone bumped them slightly harder than they were bumped now.. We watched the same kind of stuff happen with Curry all playoffs long.

But that wasn't even the point of what I was saying. How about guys that played when Reggie did then. Ricky Pierce, Hersey Hawkins, Tony Mitchell, Kendall Gill, Jeff Hornacek, Nick Anderson, Jim Jackson, Latrell Sprewell, Isaiah Rider, Ced Ceballos, Sean Elliot, Jerry Stackhouse, Steve Smith, Michael Finley, Eddie Jones, Jalen Rose, Allan Houston, Michael Redd..

My post was more so that to the people who didn't see Reggie play, I was giving them a more realistic idea of his output rather than in comparison to the legends they likely typically see him lumped with. Reggie gets the same type of "extra" that lot's of players from that generation get. He was a nasty competitor and a master trash talker. Most people remember back to those type of players and somehow correlate that to actual basketball skills.

But either way, there is you a more comparable list. Guys during that era, who could/would put up Reggie numbers. Like I said before with the others, some of them didn't do it for 10-12 years. Reggie stayed healthy, stayed on one team, and his play style aged incredibly well.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Quote:

My post was more so that to the people who didn't see Reggie play, I was giving them a more realistic idea of his output rather than in comparison to the legends they likely typically see him lumped with.

But we've all(basically everyone that posts here) pretty much seen Reggie play though...

Quote:

Reggie gets the same type of "extra" that lot's of players from that generation get. He was a nasty competitor and a master trash talker. Most people remember back to those type of players and somehow correlate that to actual basketball skills.

Translation: Most of those players from that era are more overrated than what their actual game is.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Translation: Most of those players from that era are more overrated than what their actual game is.

I don't believe that, but you do see it. For example Iverson is probably top 3 in terms of players I've watched in terms of his competitive nature. But I wouldn't use that as some sort platform to label him a better player than someone like Tim Duncan because he's quite. It's one of the first things mentioned about Reggie, but that doesn't make him a better player than someone who's emotions aren't as openly apparent.

People gravitate towards what looks appealing or exciting. Reggie drilling a dagger after talking **** up the court, Nique dunking all over someone after his man scored on him, it's exciting it's fun. But outside of bragging rights on a playground court it doesn't mean much.

There are plenty of players overrated from that era, that was the launch point of the media driven league we have now. But there are just as many underrated that nobody mentions too.



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[ProfessaPackMan]

Quote:

People gravitate towards what looks appealing or exciting.

That's with EVERYTHING in life man.

Quote:

Reggie drilling a dagger after talking **** up the court, Nique dunking all over someone after his man scored on him, it's exciting it's fun. But outside of bragging rights on a playground court it doesn't mean much.

Idiots still do this today except now we're quick to dub someone an MVP after a week for example.

Quote:

There are plenty of players overrated from that era, that was the launch point of the media driven league we have now. But there are just as many underrated that nobody mentions too.

And people in our group were saying this 10 years ago and the people before us were saying this 20 years ago. Everyone in their "era" thinks the players they watched are "underrated", just like we do now.

It's a cycle, this ain't nothing new.

[DieHardYankee26]

Whether or not he's overrated is a personal issue, based on where the person in particular rates them. So any discussion of the most overrated player ever is going to depend on who's having it. That's Kobe to me.

As far as Reggie, he's a legend because he was legendary. Same as Reggie Jackson, you show up when everyone is watching and your name is going to be in lights. I don't think there are logical basketball fans who say Reggie is one of the greatest, I think he's held to the exact standard he should be. People say he's clutch, he was a killer, a great shooter, he only existed to ruin the childhood of young Knicks fans, had ice in his veins, etc. All of that is true. The real issue is just that it's easier to pinpoint Reggie's greatness to make him seem better than he was or frame his accomplishments in a way that make them bigger so that a casual would misunderstand.

"Oh wow, he scored that many points in 13 seconds? That's incredible he must be one of the greatest!"

It's just all about putting things, as everyone loves to say around here, in context.

[AlexBrady]

If Miller didn't play most of his career under the old hand-checking, cut-bumping rules I believe he would have averaged about three more points per game, a considerable increase.

Of the guards/wings listed, only Michael Finley has a claim to be on Reggie Miller's level because of his two-way game. Actually, Finley was more of a small forward than a two-guard.