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Old 02-14-2016, 02:15 AM   #41
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

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Originally Posted by Mikey3148
Yeah you can say that but let's be honest MJ would NOT of lost one year in the finals in the 90s. And yeah he can go to six in a row but what will he remember him as? Coming in 2nd in all but 2 or possibly 3 this year.

Yeah MJ probably would have 7-8 rings, not saying he wouldn't. But hypothetical doesn't exist in a situation like this. I could just as easily say he could have played that next year and lost in the finals and then never went on to win 3 more. Or he blew out a knee and was done.

Aside from the Dallas year he's played great and they've lost to better teams. A championship has and always will be a team award.

Him making 6 straight finals should be remembered as making 6 straight finals. Sports logic is bizarre in that some bulk of fans always believe that it's better to lose before the finals than lose during them.. That's a horrible mindset to have.


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Old 02-14-2016, 02:21 AM   #42
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey3148
Yeah you can say that but let's be honest MJ would NOT of lost one year in the finals in the 90s. And yeah he can go to six in a row but what will he remember him as? Coming in 2nd in all but 2 or possibly 3 this year.

Also I don't want to have the whole MJ argument because he's not even the topic of this discussion.. But did he ever meet a team better than his, a coach better than his in a finals matchup? Were Pippen and Rodman evert hurt and forced to sit for a finals series?

Also do we look back an remember him losing to Orlando? Or that his playoff record was 1-9 before he had Pippen. Or that he failed to win it all until he landed a HOF (possible GOAT) coach?

So many variables are in play in winning TEAM awards year after year. LeBron has definitely done his individual part.


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Old 02-14-2016, 04:33 AM   #43
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

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And only a LeBron ***** would claim he hasn't been for awhile now?

I said up to this point. Not necessarily saying he's the best in the league this year. Though he's a better all around player than maybe anyone but Westbrook this season. Steph is the MVP though.

He's lazy on defense at times, and he is having a bad shooting year. The problem with LeBron is he's not "LeBron" until the playoffs. That's how he's been the last 3-4 years now. He also noticeably plays different against a team like Philly than he would going up against Durant or other stars. That's just who he is now, he's conservative. No different than Pop sitting his stars for games, or Wade playing half seasons really.

Last year in the playoffs he was noticeably still the best in the league. Led both teams in points, rebounds, assists in the finals. First time ever. Was responsible for about 58 of his teams points per game, most in finals history. Came damn close to averaging a 40ppg triple double. Through the playoffs he finished 2nd in scoring per game, 9th in rebounds, 2nd in assists, 15th in blocks, 10th in steals, 3rd in EFF.. Who else in this league can do that?

He's also likely on pace to make his 6th straight finals. Which Kobe didn't do, Duncan didn't do, Jordan didn't do, Larry didn't do, Magic didn't do, nobody has accomplished that feat since Bill Russell.

His shooting is down since Miami, which I think in large part is because he wants to win a ring in Cleveland and isn't focused on the efficient side of his game now that he's achieved what he achieved in Miami. But he's still scoring more efficiently than almost everyone in the league. Out of the top 30 scorers in the league he's 4th in FG%. Actually Kawhi is at 51% with LeBron, Durant, Curry at 50%. For someone who scores that efficiently does it really matter if his outside shooting percentage is trash right now?


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This dude put up a 41/22/73 line with 4 turnovers per game in the playoffs last year with an eFG% of 44. He wasn't by any means the best player last year in the playoffs. You're just looking at the counting stats, which he will always have because he dribbles the air out of the ball for 20 seconds and either drives or passes for an assist opportunity. It's the main reason he'll never win another ring, unless he goes chasing again, he's simply not efficient enough anymore to play that way.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:26 PM   #44
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

Glad to See Lebron and Kobe was accurately ranked. Kobe has never been in my top 10, nor do I believe he should be. I do think top 15 is where he belongs. It'd be hard for me to have Kobe in my top 10, as I feel he was never the best player for a long period of time, his one MVP reflects that.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:50 PM   #45
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

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Originally Posted by ojandpizza
Also I don't want to have the whole MJ argument because he's not even the topic of this discussion.. But did he ever meet a team better than his, a coach better than his in a finals matchup? Were Pippen and Rodman evert hurt and forced to sit for a finals series?

Also do we look back an remember him losing to Orlando? Or that his playoff record was 1-9 before he had Pippen. Or that he failed to win it all until he landed a HOF (possible GOAT) coach?

So many variables are in play in winning TEAM awards year after year. LeBron has definitely done his individual part.


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Yeah you're right on the whole Phil Jackson thing but, we are going to pentalize Mike for having the best team in the league (which was Mike, Scottie, Grant/Rodman and a bunch of role players) ? And yeah MJ couldn't get it done the 80s when he was young and didn't even people around him really. He dropped 63 against arguably the best team in the league at the time in his 2nd season (since he was out for the year the year before). He had a team built around him while LeBron. had to run from his "beloved" hometown to team up with 2 top 10 players in the NBA at the time to win his rings.
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Old 02-14-2016, 02:37 PM   #46
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

I'm not penalizing Mike though. I'm just saying lots of factors come in to play to be a consistent champion.

LeBron wouldn't have had to leave if he already had a great team. If he had his Kareem and Worthy, his McHale and Parish, his Pippen and Phil.

People just throw out the window how great other teams were when it comes to LeBron. There are so many double standard arguments with him. He did go to Miami and played in finals with Chalmers and Joel Anthony starting. Could you imagine if those two were starting in a finals against GS this year? It's not as if the cast around him was great. The league is just back to the point that you need 3+ guys to win rings now. Cleveland was never going to be able to bring that there.

I understand that some people don't like that he left and some people don't mind. But him playing in Miami doesn't equate to him being any less of a player or any less of a champion just because some fans didn't like it lol. He was still leading his team in points, rebounds, assists, FG%, steals... It's not like he went there and things became easy. He was still doing things no other player as done, to an extent that Riley even called him the "greatest of them all".




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Old 02-14-2016, 08:40 PM   #47
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey3148
I think Shawn Marion should be in the top 100 over him. Great defensive player and a very good rebounder to go with his scoring. Also played on a very good Suns team that went deep into the playoffs a couple years .
Wait, they picked Rodman over Mitch Richmond, Shawn Marion and Tim Hardaway?!?!?!

Just shows how stupid and the lack of thought behind this list.

Anyway, Curry and Westbrook should be much, much further down this list. Blake Griffin, Kevin Love and Dennis Rodman (with a few other players) shouldn't be on it.

While, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal should all hover around 4 - 7 (IMO they should be 4. Duncan, 6. O'Neal & 7. Bryant) around the same stratosphere as Johnson and Bird.

All three are better than Bird, IMO, while Duncan's two - way dominance (still a dominant interior defender at 39) makes him superior to Johnson.

My Top 10:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul - Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Tim Duncan
5. Ervin Johnson
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Kobe Bryant
8.LeBron James
9. Larry Bird
10. Hakeem Olujawon


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Old 02-14-2016, 08:44 PM   #48
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Re: ESPN Top 100 list

Bill Walton should be off the list too. Possibly Grant Hill.. Both "could have been" status, especially Bill Walton.


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