11/7 - 11/13 Games Discussion Thread

[jfsolo]

IMO, it's worth it there for Westbrook and Donovan in this meaningless early season game to both get T'd up and kicked out here, and say some stuff after the game to get fined too. The Melo call was bad, this one is worse.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

He’s going to be solid as a back up scoring threat, which completely blows whatever Deron Williams brought last season out of the water. But he’s still such a ****ty playmaker with a one track mind even all these years later. It was good to see him not playing down the stretch, but also good to see him attacking early on to help them get off to a good start and give them energy throughout the course of the game. He’s doing a good job getting to the rim and finishing and getting himself to the line, which is great because in an off the bench role they need some easy looks and they need to get to the free throw line. But he’s still such a bad shooter, Wade as well, even when they are wide open. And Rose’s vision in the half court is just so poor. I don’t know what the numbers look like, but it feels like he’s probably averaging more turnovers than assists right now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I honestly don't think Rose is much, if at all, better than Deron was last season. Deron had an abysmal Finals series, but leading up to that, he gave Cleveland 13.3/6.4/3 turnovers on 46/42/84 shooting (56.6% TS%) per 36.

Rose is currently giving Cleveland 19.1/2.3/3.6 turnovers on 47/23/91 shooting (54.2% TS%) per 36 and his defense isn't really even an upgrade over Deron's.

I just think Rose is a terrible player. Deron isn't anything special either, but I don't really see it as an upgrade. Maybe something will click for Rose when he comes off the bench, but I'm not sure it's safe to assume that. Being an inefficient scorer, not passing, and not defending is a pretty brutal combination.

[jeebs9]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

IMO, it's worth it there for Westbrook and Donovan in this meaningless early season game to both get T'd up and kicked out here, and say some stuff after the game to get fined too. The Melo call was bad, this one is worse.

I don't get the people that have been defending these last 3 calls. These are all offensive fouls at the most. Maybe a F1.


AD and Cousin....I just wouldn't want to play these guys. mismatches across the boards. And if their guards are hitting and making shots. WTF are you suppose to do? lol




And in NYC, I've been hearing a lot of talk about the Knicks. I can't remember hearing this much positive talk about the Knicks in years.

[dubcity]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

I just think Rose is a terrible player. Deron isn't anything special either, but I don't really see it as an upgrade. Maybe something will click for Rose when he comes off the bench, but I'm not sure it's safe to assume that. Being an inefficient scorer, not passing, and not defending is a pretty brutal combination.

Also is not a 3 point shooter. He's a SG pretending to be a PG, but he's not effective at either position. Jarrett Jack would be more useful for them.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy

I honestly don't think Rose is much, if at all, better than Deron was last season. Deron had an abysmal Finals series, but leading up to that, he gave Cleveland 13.3/6.4/3 turnovers on 46/42/84 shooting (56.6% TS%) per 36. Rose is currently giving Cleveland 19.1/2.3/3.6 turnovers on 47/23/91 shooting (54.2% TS%) per 36 and his defense isn't really even an upgrade over Deron's. I just think Rose is a terrible player. Deron isn't anything special either, but I don't really see it as an upgrade. Maybe something will click for Rose when he comes off the bench, but I'm not sure it's safe to assume that. Being an inefficient scorer, not passing, and not defending is a pretty brutal combination.

I agree with pretty much everything you’re saying here, but the only issue with using the Per36 in this particular scenario is that they couldn’t play Deron Williams 36 minutes. They couldn’t even really leave him on the court for longer than a few minutes at any particular time.

Cleveland was substantially worse with him on the court, and the only real benefit he added was he could hit open shots. But in the playoffs when he wasn’t doing that he was worthless. Wasn’t there a stat in the finals or something showing that the was statistically speaking the worst player in finals history or something crazy along those lines? I can’t remember exactly what is was right now.

It’s hard to compare them now because Cleveland has gotten off to such a bad start with everyone’s numbers look ****ty. But with Rose, assuming he’ll be coming off the bench, you can actually play him as more of a 6th, 7th man role, rather than a 10th guy. He can get to the rim and the free throw line meaning you don’t have to only give him minutes when LeBron is on the floor, which was the situation Williams was in because he didn’t offer anything other than spot up shooting from LeBron kick-outs.

In a situation where say Kyrie was in foul trouble they couldn’t really just stick Deron in the game and play him for 20 minutes. They’d work him in some, work Shump in some, go without a point completely and let LeBron bring it up, etc. Rose is a guy they should be able to leave on the floor for some minutes if they are forced to.

I might be wrong, I guess we’ll see once he actually assumes his bench role. But trust me I definitely agree that he’s just not a good player. Hell I was saying that about him back when he won the MVP even, so I definitely don’t have much praise for him other than to say he’s more reliable for them than Deron.. which isn’t saying much anyways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProfessaPackMan]

Don't be using stats to spin Deron's play last year.

That man was cold trash and has been since he put on a Nets jersey. #hatehatehate

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

I agree with pretty much everything you’re saying here, but the only issue with using the Per36 in this particular scenario is that they couldn’t play Deron Williams 36 minutes. They couldn’t even really leave him on the court for longer than a few minutes at any particular time. Cleveland was substantially worse with him on the court, and the only real benefit he added was he could hit open shots. But in the playoffs when he wasn’t doing that he was worthless. Wasn’t there a stat in the finals or something showing that the was statistically speaking the worst player in finals history or something crazy along those lines? I can’t remember exactly what is was right now. It’s hard to compare them now because Cleveland has gotten off to such a bad start with everyone’s numbers look ****ty. But with Rose, assuming he’ll be coming off the bench, you can actually play him as more of a 6th, 7th man role, rather than a 10th guy. He can get to the rim and the free throw line meaning you don’t have to only give him minutes when LeBron is on the floor, which was the situation Williams was in because he didn’t offer anything other than spot up shooting from LeBron kick-outs. In a situation where say Kyrie was in foul trouble they couldn’t really just stick Deron in the game and play him for 20 minutes. They’d work him in some, work Shump in some, go without a point completely and let LeBron bring it up, etc. Rose is a guy they should be able to leave on the floor for some minutes if they are forced to. I might be wrong, I guess we’ll see once he actually assumes his bench role. But trust me I definitely agree that he’s just not a good player. Hell I was saying that about him back when he won the MVP even, so I definitely don’t have much praise for him other than to say he’s more reliable for them than Deron.. which isn’t saying much anyways. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure Deron couldn't play 36 a night anymore, but nobody expected him to. We're talking about Rose coming off the bench too, aren't we? Deron was giving Cleveland 20ish minutes a game; you think Rose will really play much more than that once Isaiah is healthy?

I don't know. I guess my point is we're really just comparing **** to ****. I don't think Rose helps Cleveland in any way really; at least not substantially more than Deron did.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

I don't get the people that have been defending these last 3 calls. These are all offensive fouls at the most. Maybe a F1. AD and Cousin....I just wouldn't want to play these guys. mismatches across the boards. And if their guards are hitting and making shots. WTF are you suppose to do? lol And in NYC, I've been hearing a lot of talk about the Knicks. I can't remember hearing this much positive talk about the Knicks in years.

I know about Carmelo's ejection and Westbrook's weird one from last night. What's the 3rd?