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ojandpizza · 12-01-2018, 08:26 PM

I respectfully disagree. His talent/skill certainly “stacks up” but how that translates on the court is a different story. His defense was overrated the majority of his career, and his shot selection and efficiency highly questionable, didn’t really “raise” his game in the playoffs, and for all the praise he gets for hitting a few game winning shots in the regular season ranks out statically as a horrible “clutch” player in the playoffs compared to his comparable counter parts. Maybe horrible is the wrong word, but drastically different than what ESPN decided his reputation was.

There isn’t a single measure to the game outside of shots taken, points scored, that he ranks out as a top 10 player.. not like he misses a couple things, it’s all of them. And many for playoffs as well despite playing more playoff games than half the comparisons.

He’s behind MJ, Bron, Magic, Bird, probably Big O, as far as just “non bigs” go. Kobe is the perfect example of everyone wanting there to be a “next Jordan” and right before everyone wanted to start valuing efficiency, advanced stats, analytics, and team impact.. he fell right between those two extremes during a period where all anyone cared about is if he scored 50 points and/or shot a game winner.

Like I said, pretty much every measure available we have to measure team impact he ranked just below the All Time greats. Hasn’t shown the ability to make an otherwise poor team good, though his scoring can elevate good teams to great, and shot selection nullified what could have been the best all around scoring ability the league has had.

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AlexBrady · 12-03-2018, 03:26 PM

Spoiler

Kobe did take plays off on defense (no player in history besides MJ went all out on both ends consistently) and didn't always attend to his defensive rotations. But when Kobe turned the switch (especially in important playoff games) he was the best man to man defender in the game. His lateral quickness was outstanding and he had the willpower to dodge screens. At his best, Kobe could play shutdown defense against point guards and both wing positions.

Kobe had a terrific middle game with a vast arsenal of pull-up jumpers. In the clutch (last 8-10 minutes or so) he could beat you in a number of ways. From a jumper with a defender hanging on his shooting arm to a creative pass. He could come down with a traffic rebound or rescue a loose ball. He had that stopper mind set where he could really bear down in the big moments and get the solo defensive stop.

Numbers do not capture the heart of the game and are merely a marginal guide. The ultimate function is to win Championships and Kobe did provide vital and irreplaceable contributions to five Title teams.

I agree that Kobe could revert to selfish play more often than you would like but he did sublimate his ego long enough to achieve glorious success.

Ranking the best non-bigs. MJ was much stronger than Kobe, handled better in a crowd, played more consistent defense, and didn't free-lance on the court as much. MJ was the most perfect player ever.

Oscar Robertson was also much stronger than Kobe (and MJ for that matter). He was a better passer, post up scorer, rebounder, and played more consistent defense than Kobe. Put him number two behind MJ.

LeBron's biggest edge over Kobe is his power and size which makes him even more versatile. LBJ's skills are more team oriented than Kobe's were. Maybe give LeBron the slight edge.

Tough to give Magic and Bird the edge over Kobe. Magic really couldn't hit shots from beyond 15 feet for long stretches of his career and played shamefully poor defense.

Bird lacked the otherworldly athleticism of a Kobe Bryant which meant that he couldn't guard anybody one on one (until the clutch when he did everything right).

But all those guys were so great. It is tough messing with legends.

ojandpizza · 12-03-2018, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexBrady


	Spoiler Kobe did take plays off on defense (no player in history besides MJ went all out on both ends consistently) and didn't always attend to his defensive rotations. But when Kobe turned the switch (especially in important playoff games) he was the best man to man defender in the game. His lateral quickness was outstanding and he had the willpower to dodge screens. At his best, Kobe could play shutdown defense against point guards and both wing positions. Kobe had a terrific middle game with a vast arsenal of pull-up jumpers. In the clutch (last 8-10 minutes or so) he could beat you in a number of ways. From a jumper with a defender hanging on his shooting arm to a creative pass. He could come down with a traffic rebound or rescue a loose ball. He had that stopper mind set where he could really bear down in the big moments and get the solo defensive stop. Numbers do not capture the heart of the game and are merely a marginal guide. The ultimate function is to win Championships and Kobe did provide vital and irreplaceable contributions to five Title teams. I agree that Kobe could revert to selfish play more often than you would like but he did sublimate his ego long enough to achieve glorious success. Ranking the best non-bigs. MJ was much stronger than Kobe, handled better in a crowd, played more consistent defense, and didn't free-lance on the court as much. MJ was the most perfect player ever. Oscar Robertson was also much stronger than Kobe (and MJ for that matter). He was a better passer, post up scorer, rebounder, and played more consistent defense than Kobe. Put him number two behind MJ. LeBron's biggest edge over Kobe is his power and size which makes him even more versatile. LBJ's skills are more team oriented than Kobe's were. Maybe give LeBron the slight edge. Tough to give Magic and Bird the edge over Kobe. Magic really couldn't hit shots from beyond 15 feet for long stretches of his career and played shamefully poor defense. Bird lacked the otherworldly athleticism of a Kobe Bryant which meant that he couldn't guard anybody one on one (until the clutch when he did everything right). But all those guys were so great. It is tough messing with legends.

I replied to this, with basically my whole Kobe scouting report in the top 100 thread. Didn't feel like it belonged here.

tonybologna · 12-05-2018, 07:55 PM

I'm changing my Rookie of the Year Award to Doncic from the Mavs. I picked Ayton from the Suns before the season began. Doncic is by far the leader right now. This kid can play & I personally believe his International skillset & training had him ready for the NBA. However, I didn't expect him to be doing this good. This kid can do it ALL!

ojandpizza · 12-06-2018, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybologna


	I'm changing my Rookie of the Year Award to Doncic from the Mavs. I picked Ayton from the Suns before the season began. Doncic is by far the leader right now. This kid can play & I personally believe his International skillset & training had him ready for the NBA. However, I didn't expect him to be doing this good. This kid can do it ALL!

I like how Dallas plays him. I had big concerns about him being drafted as a point guard, I didn't believe he could be a point in today's NBA much less live up to the Simmons comparisons early on. His role as the 3/4 type while still eating a lot of ball handling and play-making responsibilities has been perfect for him. I think he and Smith right now have a better understanding of when to score/facilitate as compared to early in the year. Felt like Smith wanted to score too much, and Doncic didn't have the ball enough outside of his scoring attempts early in the season. They have it figured out now.

Majingir · 04-10-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majingir


	East: 1.Raptors 2.Celtics 3.76ers 4.Wizards 5.Bucks 6.Pacers 7.Heat 8.Pistons West 1.Warriors 2.Rockets 3.Thunder 4.Blazers 5.Jazz 6.Spurs 7.TWolves 8. Lakers East Champion: Celtics West Champion: Warriors NBA Champion: Warriors

Seedings might have been off, but I had 5,maybe 6 right in East and 6 right in West.

cima · 05-08-2019, 10:21 PM

So it looks like every one of us that actually made predictions (including me) had Boston in the NBA Finals, lol.

This league (and life) comes at you fast...

Majingir · 05-09-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cima


	So it looks like every one of us that actually made predictions (including me) had Boston in the NBA Finals, lol. This league (and life) comes at you fast...

Theres a reason games aren't played on paper, or through video game sims.

In NHL, the Lightning were the model franchise. No weakness at all. Top offense, defense, goaltending. Most wins ever. They got swept in round 1.

In NBA, everyone said Celtics are now the team to beat in the East. Once healthy, this lineup is better than Cavs with Lebron. They even almost beat Cavs last year. This year, they lost in 2nd round in 5.

I actually had Bucks as the 5 seed and thought Wizards would be 4 seed.

12-01-2018, 08:26 PM	#33
ojandpizza Hall Of Fame OVR: 0 Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 29,501	Re: 2018-2019 NBA Predictions Thread. I respectfully disagree. His talent/skill certainly “stacks up” but how that translates on the court is a different story. His defense was overrated the majority of his career, and his shot selection and efficiency highly questionable, didn’t really “raise” his game in the playoffs, and for all the praise he gets for hitting a few game winning shots in the regular season ranks out statically as a horrible “clutch” player in the playoffs compared to his comparable counter parts. Maybe horrible is the wrong word, but drastically different than what ESPN decided his reputation was. There isn’t a single measure to the game outside of shots taken, points scored, that he ranks out as a top 10 player.. not like he misses a couple things, it’s all of them. And many for playoffs as well despite playing more playoff games than half the comparisons. He’s behind MJ, Bron, Magic, Bird, probably Big O, as far as just “non bigs” go. Kobe is the perfect example of everyone wanting there to be a “next Jordan” and right before everyone wanted to start valuing efficiency, advanced stats, analytics, and team impact.. he fell right between those two extremes during a period where all anyone cared about is if he scored 50 points and/or shot a game winner. Like I said, pretty much every measure available we have to measure team impact he ranked just below the All Time greats. Hasn’t shown the ability to make an otherwise poor team good, though his scoring can elevate good teams to great, and shot selection nullified what could have been the best all around scoring ability the league has had. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

12-03-2018, 03:26 PM	#34
AlexBrady MVP OVR: 25 Join Date: Jul 2008 Blog Entries: 8	Re: 2018-2019 NBA Predictions Thread. Spoiler Kobe did take plays off on defense (no player in history besides MJ went all out on both ends consistently) and didn't always attend to his defensive rotations. But when Kobe turned the switch (especially in important playoff games) he was the best man to man defender in the game. His lateral quickness was outstanding and he had the willpower to dodge screens. At his best, Kobe could play shutdown defense against point guards and both wing positions. Kobe had a terrific middle game with a vast arsenal of pull-up jumpers. In the clutch (last 8-10 minutes or so) he could beat you in a number of ways. From a jumper with a defender hanging on his shooting arm to a creative pass. He could come down with a traffic rebound or rescue a loose ball. He had that stopper mind set where he could really bear down in the big moments and get the solo defensive stop. Numbers do not capture the heart of the game and are merely a marginal guide. The ultimate function is to win Championships and Kobe did provide vital and irreplaceable contributions to five Title teams. I agree that Kobe could revert to selfish play more often than you would like but he did sublimate his ego long enough to achieve glorious success. Ranking the best non-bigs. MJ was much stronger than Kobe, handled better in a crowd, played more consistent defense, and didn't free-lance on the court as much. MJ was the most perfect player ever. Oscar Robertson was also much stronger than Kobe (and MJ for that matter). He was a better passer, post up scorer, rebounder, and played more consistent defense than Kobe. Put him number two behind MJ. LeBron's biggest edge over Kobe is his power and size which makes him even more versatile. LBJ's skills are more team oriented than Kobe's were. Maybe give LeBron the slight edge. Tough to give Magic and Bird the edge over Kobe. Magic really couldn't hit shots from beyond 15 feet for long stretches of his career and played shamefully poor defense. Bird lacked the otherworldly athleticism of a Kobe Bryant which meant that he couldn't guard anybody one on one (until the clutch when he did everything right). But all those guys were so great. It is tough messing with legends. Fresh Tendrils, Ragnar53, DieHardYankee26 and 1 others like this. Last edited by AlexBrady; 12-03-2018 at 03:35 PM.

12-05-2018, 07:55 PM	#36
tonybologna MVP OVR: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 9,112 Blog Entries: 4	Re: 2018-2019 NBA Predictions Thread. I'm changing my Rookie of the Year Award to Doncic from the Mavs. I picked Ayton from the Suns before the season began. Doncic is by far the leader right now. This kid can play & I personally believe his International skillset & training had him ready for the NBA. However, I didn't expect him to be doing this good. This kid can do it ALL! ojandpizza likes this. __________________ NCAA- GO VOLS NBA- GO CELTICS MLB- GO BRAVES NFL- GO COWBOYS NHL- GO PREDATORS NASCAR- Chase Elliott MLS- LA Galaxy RIP Pat Summitt: We will all miss you! Jeremiah 29:11

05-08-2019, 10:21 PM	#39
cima Hall Of Fame OVR: 5 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 13,474	Re: 2018-2019 NBA Predictions Thread. So it looks like every one of us that actually made predictions (including me) had Boston in the NBA Finals, lol. This league (and life) comes at you fast...

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