Cima, what the **** does “the 1 in the 15-1” even matter?
if you read what you quoted I mentioned his MVP.
I said Joker made the list based on the same criteria that Giannis did and I would be fine with removing them both. But if I were to add Iverson and still allow Joker/Giannis to qualify he is not the player I would remove first to give Iverson a spot because he’s been better the past two post seasons than half the people on this list..
“Joker simply could not do what AI did” and Iverson couldn’t do what Joker has done either.
Iverson had a great crossover, and could get off his own shot as well or better than any other 6’ and under player who’s ever played.. but his game lacked lots of substance outside of that. Too small to be a good defender, not a great passer, not even a great scorer by any means as it took him 46 minutes and 28 shots to get his 30 points. But there is substance to basketball outside the highlight real, outside of getting up lots of shots. Like Kobe said perhaps all players should feel fortunate that Iverson wasn’t 6’5”.... but he wasn’t so...
Joker this past two seasons had a combined playoff PER of 26.9, if it was enough games to qualify he would rank only 4th behind Jordan, Mikan and LeBron for his career... his top year (last year) is the 33rd highest ever, Iverson’s best season is 239th. His top box +/- score is 15th, his other 164th, Iverson’s best year ranks 200 and is his lone season in the top 250. He was the single best player in all of last years playoffs, and knocked off this years Clippers which is a substantially better feat than “the 1 in 15-1”. He led all of last years players in the playoffs in PER, BPM, OBPM, WS/48..
His playoff offensive rating is a 122, good for 3rd in league history currently, Iverson narrowly cracks the top 250 and 249. Joker’s per 100 possession stats are 34/15/9, Iverson 36/5/7 but the TS% is 61 vs 48. He’s the best passer in all of basketball (if not the best at least on a level playing field with Bron, CP3) and just picks apart playoff defenses. He and Iverson both accounted for 45 points per game with scoring and assisting Joker last year Iverson in 2001, dead even, with Joker playing 7 less minutes and taking 13 less shots per game. All while rebounding, and making various non box score plays for Murray with his ability to play off Joker screens.
Not too mention Joker just makes everyone around him better, which basically the exact opposite of Iverson’s entire career. Murray’s ability to play off Joker’s unique ability to be a point-center, his screens, passing, inside out game, helped him make huge jumps in his game this year.
Iverson’s biggest claim to something like this is that he carried a team to the finals. But that team was a middle of the road offense team who did as well as they did because they were elite on defense. And he was the worst defender of the group. Dikembe was credited with more win shares than Iverson in that playoff run, and obviously there is far more too it than just that but Iverson’s sky high usage paired with high volume scoring and mediocre PER is basically James Harden but substantially less efficient than even playoff James Harden.
And cima its incredibly hypocritical to be so high on a player like Bron and not be able to realize how great Joker has been. There hasn’t been another player in the last 30 years with that combination of scoring, passing, efficiency other than LeBron. Dudes playoff run last year was 33/17/11 per 100, with a league leading PER of just under 30, just narrowly missed 50/40/90 and a TS% just a tad under 60%..
Admittedly Joker comes in to every season looking a little out of shape and starts off looking pretty mediocre. But every postseason (the last two is all of them) he’s been a top player in the league. If there were “first team playoffs” he would have easily made the last 2 of them. Him being slow and boring doesn’t change that.
But like I said before, I would be fine removing both Giannis and Joker.. but Iverson likely wouldn’t be my pick to replace them. I don’t know what separates him from a good chunk of other payers if they were putting up 25-30 shots a night. Kyrie, Dame, they would be the same, and possibly do it more efficiently. I just feel like he gets less impressive as time goes on as there are seemingly more and more guys who can do what he did.
And cima for as much as you were on the Kyrie is a bad leader train I’d love to hear you justify how Iverson was a great leader.
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