2021-22 NBA Trade Deadline

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

Not sure how getting another PG that can't shoot works for the Sixers and if the Sixers move Simmons without getting any usable draft picks back in the deal it's a fail on their part. They may not win any inevitable Simmons trade, but they cannot walk away from a deal as the loser. They need to either win or come out of it in a win/win situation

Because point guard who can't shoot but is playing > point guard who can't shoot but isn't playing at all lol.

But I completely get not wanting to do that trade also. I wouldn't necessarily considering get back an All-Star guy a loss for them considering when Ben makes an All-Star everyone claims he doesn't deserve.. But I also know just how weird the general basketball fan treats guys like Russ and Ben anyways and that's part of why trades involving either of them become messy.

[King_B_Mack]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

Because point guard who can't shoot but is playing > point guard who can't shoot but isn't playing at all lol. But I completely get not wanting to do that trade also. I wouldn't necessarily considering get back an All-Star guy a loss for them considering when Ben makes an All-Star everyone claims he doesn't deserve.. But I also know just how weird the general basketball fan treats guys like Russ and Ben anyways and that's part of why trades involving either of them become messy.

No it's not lol. Not when said PG is leading the league in turnovers and averaging a little under 5 per game and most importantly there are better deals out there to be made. What does Westbrook do for the long term future of the Sixers? Hell what does he do for them now? The Lakers are barely a playoff team and he's taking it in the teeth as the biggest reason for that. THT might eventually be a solid piece but haven't people already started falling out of love with him in LA? Nunn is also just a guy.

I just feel like if you're not getting a promising young piece back or at least a 1st in a deal moving a guy like Simmons with the type of team control he's under, it isn't really worth moving him at all this year.

[illwill10]

At this point, "winning" the trade should be the concern. What is considered "winning" in this situation. That would be getting someone like a Dame, Beal, Harden, Brown, etc. Not sure, I want to chance banking on a sign & trade for either Harden or Beal. I think that is why they want to include Harris, so they could have better opportunity to free up cap space. At this point, getting off of Simmons and Harris's contract is a win in it self lol. But, not absorbing another huge contract in Westbrook. If he was on an expiring deal, than I would take him in a second.

I'm alright with Maxey as the starting PG. I rather upgrade the Wing. Like I said, if we could do a 3 team that could land us Ingram, I would do that in a second

[ProfessaPackMan]

Imagine having such a huge ego that you’re primary goal is just to “win” a trade in the eyes of the bloggers and TV pundits, Instead of actually doing what’s best for your team, given the current situation.

All this for a player who supposedly isn’t that good, can’t shoot and can’t play in the 4th quarter of games.

Edit: You can’t claim that you’re in “win now” mode but still worrying about trying to win “in the long term” either because you can’t do both, just like you can’t halfway tank. You’re either all in or you’re not.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

No it's not lol. Not when said PG is leading the league in turnovers and averaging a little under 5 per game and most importantly there are better deals out there to be made. What does Westbrook do for the long term future of the Sixers? Hell what does he do for them now? The Lakers are barely a playoff team and he's taking it in the teeth as the biggest reason for that. THT might eventually be a solid piece but haven't people already started falling out of love with him in LA? Nunn is also guy.

For the record that's a trade that has .000000001% chance of even happening so this is just all hypothetical banter, I'm just not on the train that believes Westbrook doesn't make teams better. Sure the Lakers are a disaster right now but that's a whole bag of issues all rolled up together and Russ is just the media scapegoat. I'm also well aware that it's only Pack and myself who didn't get tickets for that Westbrook ***** train as well lol... So my perspective of him isn't just some guy who gets turnovers.

Realistically talking Lakers, I don't think they make a big move. I don't think they necessarily should either. I don't think getting Grant or Turner which are the only "rumors" that seem to have any traction are the best moves for them. On court I believe they are like a +10 playing AD, Bron, Russ together without DJ or Howard. And they have gained traction with Bron as the 5 without AD. I think it's in their best interest to see what a line-up of AD, Bron, Westbrook and whatever wing duo works best (likely THT and Monk) looks like when they also have Nunn back to play 6th man..

From there I think they move on from some of these guys who will just never have a role. DJ, Bazemore, Ellington, maybe even Ariza. Some 2 for 1 or 3 for 2 traade where the Lakers send out a 2nd rounder to facilitate. Get back a player who could actually contribute even a small role for them and open a roster spot for the buyout market.

Hollinger suggests not long ago that the Lakers should be making calls on guys like Marcus Smart, Norman Powell, Derrick White.. And I agree that if they do make a move it would be something along those lines because that is where they need help. White is a bit redundant if they are keeping Monk in this larger role but it's also worth noting that he's under contract for 4 years and Monk isn't.

Realistically they need a defender who just is a better player than AB. if teams actually have interest in THT I think him for a more proven player in that regard is the upgrade to make if they even trade a player who currently contributes.

As for Philly I don't' think they should sit on Simmons all year long and I also don't think their end game should be acquiring picks. Not sure how much of them you have followed lately but they are now 5th in the East, 1 game behind Milwaukee, 2 games behind the Nets, just 4 games behind the Bulls for first. That is with zero games from Ben, 11 missed games from Joel.. They have won 71% of games Joel has played, in other words with him they have played at a number 1 seed in the East number 3 seed overall (behind GS and Pho) level this season. They absolutely want to make improvements while this Joel window is open and get back pieces that help them win now.

Is that Russ? Probably not what they want obviously I was just going with the post before that mentioned it. That said Russ has paired well with bigs and scorers in the past, he facilitates, rebounds, scores much like Ben and I could see both Joel and Maxey still flourishing next to him. Not saying they want to move Russ for Ben, but if this moved into some 4-5 team deal and they get back all the pieces they want in a trade while moving off of Harris, I could see them taking back Russ if that was required to make the salaries work. Lot's of ifs in all that but I don't think it's THAT far fetched because Philly has no reason to be searching for picks or young guys just to get the "better" trade long term 4 years down the line if they are wanting to win right now. Another pro-Doc benefit is that type of move shifts Maxey or Curry to a 6th man role, a position Doc loves to be in with guys like Lou and Jamal in the past.

Also while Russ isn't an expiring contract he is next season which would get them off that money in roughly the same amount of time as waiting all the way until next years trade deadline just hanging on to Ben. And Russ technically does have a player option. Not saying he would turn down 47 million but if the right 4-year 20 a year came along guaranteeing him 80 he might. He sees his value dwindling, crazier **** has happened than guys securing more guaranteed money over more years.

Completely making **** up but say Indy, Philly, Lakers, Hawks all went in on a trade. Do you think Philly would nix a trade receiving Westbrook if it landed them LeVert and Collins, or Levert, Warren, Reddish, THT? I think in scenarios like that there are plenty of avenues where it makes sense for them. Even if they kept Westbrook for next season they could be done after that. They would still owe Tobias Harris 39 million the year after that, which is worse, if they were to keep him.

Regardless I don't think the Lakers facilitate that type of move even if they should simply because it takes them back to where they were pre-Westbrook trade. I think the pride factor will keep them from saying "hey we shouldn't have made that trade" but in theory they could take back a contract like Gallo or Tobias to facilitate Philly getting pieces they want, ATL getting Ben like they want, and Pacers jumpstarting their rebuild like they want. Throw in teams like Pistons or Kings as well. But that does leave them most likely taking back role players and bad contracts, something that might actually make them better if they fix holes in the process but they likely just wouldn't do being the Lakers.

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Imagine having such a huge ego that you’re primary goal is just to “win” a trade in the eyes of the bloggers and TV pundits, Instead of actually doing what’s best for your team, given the current situation. All this for a player who supposedly isn’t that good, can’t shoot and can’t play in the 4th quartet of games.

That's the issue. How often does a team trading a star player "win" the deal. Most of these star trades involve a team the trading team going towards a rebuild, not wanting to maintain contender status.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by illwill10

That's the issue. How often does a team trading a star player "win" the deal. Most of these star trades involve a team the trading team going towards a rebuild, not wanting to maintain contender status.

I feel like we won’t know who “won” a deal or if everyone benefitted from it until a few years down the line.

Rockets-Nets-Cavs-Pacers deal from last year is a prime example of where nobody will know who “won” or if everyone came out good from it until a few years down the line.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

I feel like we won’t know who “won” a deal or if everyone benefitted from it until a few years down the line. Rockets-Nets-Cavs-Packers deal from last year is a prime example of where nobody will know who “won” or if everyone came out good from it until a few years down the line.

Is this where they almost traded Rodgers?