This or Fifa?

[teambayern]

Here are some general thoughts I have with regard to the points discussed:

1. never, ever judge a football title based on its IGN score. PES used to get terrible scores during its glory years, then raised them after it started its turn towards the arcade. It's just not a reliable source for the sport. The same goes for other sites and other sports games. My god, look at the the Madden scores if you think that those things matter.

2. FIFA, of course, has the heavy edge in all things animation, presentation, and atmosphere. No argument there.

3. But your discussion of these elements as part of the total package might reveal why you can't understand why so many prefer PES. I think its fair to say that for the typical PES fan, gameplay is so much more important than those things that they hardly escape from its shadow. Plus, PES has a dedicated community that helps fill in the licensing gap with option files. Often times, the licensed game isn't as accurate as the better OF's available for PES. Storm, you asked how it was not a big deal playing with Man Red? That's why: 90% of the people buying PES would probably rather see a team playing like the real team than just sharing the name, and most of those will change the name and uniforms anyways via the OFs.

4. A small niggle here- I agree FIFA is best played on manual, but surely that is not the way it was MEANT to be played. If it was, there would be manual clubs, manual lobbies, and manual would be the default setting, or at least semi. As it stands, the game was built from the bottom up to use assists in its controls, and that's all the vast majority of FIFA players ever use. Pro Passing isn't even a default option for online. I say this not to quibble, but because I think this is an important piece in the PES/FIFA puzzle. FIFA is the best selling sports franchise in the world- it HAS to cater to the not just the hardcore, but also the casual. It has, IMO, created the best simulation you could ever ask for given this market, but it's not the same as a relatively small developer like the PES team which CAN profit from courting a subset of consumer, such as the hardcore sim fans. For this reason, PES can benefit from balancing everything for use with manual/semi style controls, whereas FIFA can't focus on one control scheme in the same way when it is programming.


5. IMO, the stark difference of the opinion on FIFA and PES can be attributed to some other factors as well. First, they play so differently that switching back and forth can be difficult. I think many try a demo playing the way they would on the other game and get frustrated at the result. Second, I think FIFA in many ways LOOKS like the game you see on TV. The animations are gorgeous, the passes pretty effortless (even on full manual), and in general, its a peach of a game. I really enjoyed FIFA 10 for this reason. But if I'm being completely honest, I often thought it didn't FEEL like real football. Simple things like the speed of the game, which FIFA 08 had really nailed in comparison to PES, had been sped up way too much. Tactics also felt limited, both in the management screen where you have to save every small change to a formation slot and on the pitch, where 1:1's became the norm and the midfield all but disappeared. Then there's shooting, where FIFA never really found footing the way PES has. There have been improvements to each of these in FIFA 11, but many of the underlying problems still remain. FIFA 11 is still a great game (one of the best sports franchises we have right now), but at heart, I just don't think it was made for the type of player who either played or coached the sport at a high level of competitive play, or the gamer who wants a more in depth, tactical simulation that resembles the build up play crucial to the real life sport. Don't get me wrong, I think FIFA is far more realistic when it comes to physics and movement. But not when it comes to replicating the spirit of football. FIFA fans and PES fans might differ in that respect, and thus in the opinions of the games, with FIFA fans loving how the players feel so real as they dribble and pass, and PES fans loving how the match feels so real as it ebbs and flows. For example, I think the weight of the passes in FIFA is better, but the movement of the offense and defense in response to the passing is better in PES. Another example, the shots look great cutting through the air in FIFA, but they go in when they ought to (and vice versa) more often in PES.

IMHO, FIFA is a fun and beautiful video game that can often look a lot like football, whereas PES 11 is a flawed facsimile of the real thing.

[steveeee]

no offense to anyone here.. but I personally don't think someone knows the real game at all when the say FIFA is more sim than PES.. sorry but that is pretty laughable to me

and judging footie games by IGN scores? seriously? just play the demos yourself and get what you think is better. like I said earlier... FIFA 11 is not much different than the FIFA world CUp game I just traded in for NHL 11 so therefore I have not bought the new one yet. I'm waiting for PES this year instead because the demo was a lot better than the FIFA 11 demo when I played both.

I'm excited about PES online if it's lag free.. it will be addicting

Quote:

On FIFA (even on manual) multiplayer games just come down to your gaming reactions and instincts, your ability to exploit the flaws in the game and use the same routes to goal. It does not make you think like a footballer, and if you force yourself to do so, then you will be at a massive disadvantage - admittedly, it has it's moments of genius, especially on Clubs, but generally, it's a joke of a game online (and just plain boring offline).

I read this in other forum when comparing FIFA online... I couldn't of said it better myself and that is exactly why I'm so sick of FIFA online and basically traded it in.

[TheDutchDad]

Quote: Originally Posted by steveeee

no offense to anyone here.. but I personally don't think someone knows the real game at all when the say FIFA is more sim than PES.. sorry but that is pretty laughable to me and judging footie games by IGN scores? seriously? just play the demos yourself and get what you think is better. like I said earlier... FIFA 11 is not much different than the FIFA world CUp game I just traded in for NHL 11 so therefore I have not bought the new one yet. I'm waiting for PES this year instead because the demo was a lot better than the FIFA 11 demo when I played both. I'm excited about PES online if it's lag free.. it will be addicting I read this in other forum when comparing FIFA online... I couldn't of said it better myself and that is exactly why I'm so sick of FIFA online and basically traded it in.

Completely agree with you. PES is so much more sim than FIFA. Don't get me wrong...I have FIFA, and will continue playing it...mainly because I love FIFA UT, but PES I get more out of than FIFA. PES just seems more life like in the players reactions, ball physics (Can't stand how FIFA has these floaty ball physics...every ball seems to float more than it should) and overall feel to the game of soccer.

FIFA doesn't evolve much either. I mean...it's a pretty good game now..but thats all it is. A game of soccer...it's not sim to me. This year PES has really stepped up it's game more from last year/ Whereas...Fifa this year hasn't changed too drastically from last year. Could be a good thing or not...but IMO PES needed to change and get back to it's roots more, and this year from the demo it seemed to really make that leap back to what I used to be addicted to.

[T3AMGEIST]

I am a member of a former PES fan board, nearly everyone over there played PES because of the realism, most of them play FIFA nowadays, since PES gone way to arcade and FIFA became more realistic!

My Game History:
FIFA International Soccer (PC)
FIFA 98 (PC)
FIFA 99 (PC)
FIFA 2000 (PC)
Bundesliga Stars 2000 (PS)
FIFA 2001 (PC)
Bundesliga Stars 2001 (PS)
FIFA 2002 (PS)
FIFA World Cup 2002 (PS)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2 (PS)
Pro Evolution Soccer 3 (PC)
Pro Evolution Soccer 4 (PC)
Pro Evolution Soccer 5 (PC)
Pro Evolution Soccer 6 (PS2)
FIFA 08 (Xbox 360)
UEFA Euro 2008 (PS3)
FIFA 09 (Xbox 360)
FIFA 10 (Xbox 360)
FIFA World Cup 2010 (Xbox 360)
FIFA 11 (Xbox 360)

[Lisa_Bonami]

Quote: Originally Posted by cadalyst17

Have you played it manually?

cadalyst, are you saying that Fifa's game is programmed in such a way that the AI defenders actually will play more realistically laid back when you simply turn off assisted modes and go all manual??

That doesnt really make sense to me, I thought that the assisted modes where just designed to help you target your passes, shots and thru balls more accurately with proper velocities, I didnt think that those modes also forced the ai defenders to be more aggressively in your face as well...can someone validate this? I would love it if it was the case!

[teambayern]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lisa_Bonami

cadalyst, are you saying that Fifa's game is programmed in such a way that the AI defenders actually will play more realistically laid back when you simply turn off assisted modes and go all manual?? That doesnt really make sense to me, I thought that the assisted modes where just designed to help you target your passes, shots and thru balls more accurately with proper velocities, I didnt think that those modes also forced the ai defenders to be more aggressively in your face as well...can someone validate this? I would love it if it was the case!

If FIFA 11 is anything like past FIFAs and the demo, then changing to manual will improve missed passes and such for the CPU, but not tone down aggresiveness. For that, you need to edit the custom tactics. It's an imperfect solution but does improve the CPU play.

[ezio]

Quote: Originally Posted by teambayern

If FIFA 11 is anything like past FIFAs and the demo, then changing to manual will improve missed passes and such for the CPU, but not tone down aggresiveness. For that, you need to edit the custom tactics. It's an imperfect solution but does improve the CPU play.

Which is ridiculous that we have to edit the tactics. Although, last year I think EA came out with an update that actually changed them.

The biggest difference between the 2 games to me is that in PES at least I have time on the ball and there is space in midfield to pick out a pass. In Fifa the midfield is way too congested IMO. I know that some games play out like that in real life but it seems to be that way in every game in Fifa.

Also, it is way too easy to win the ball in Fifa using X to tackle at least on any level up to World Class.

[teambayern]

Quote: Originally Posted by ezio

Which is ridiculous that we have to edit the tactics. Although, last year I think EA came out with an update that actually changed them. The biggest difference between the 2 games to me is that in PES at least I have time on the ball and there is space in midfield to pick out a pass. In Fifa the midfield is way too congested IMO. I know that some games play out like that in real life but it seems to be that way in every game in Fifa. Also, it is way too easy to win the ball in Fifa using X to tackle at least on any level up to World Class.

This is a good description and I agree with it. When I play FIFA, I always start out having fun, but eventually kind of just tune out. I get tired of just holding the tackle and pressure buttons and chasing the ball and having it work 90% of the time, and I also get tired of having to go through a long menu and save process to make the slightest tactical adjustment. In my MM in FIFA 10, I'll think "I need to drop my CAM into a CDM role to help hold the center of the field" but then think "it's not worth the 3 minutes and save slot, and I'll only end up having two guys to hold the pressure button with." In PES, i feel like I am at least forced to think a little bit more, both tactically and strategically, which helps overcome other problems.