Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

[raidersbball20]

discuss this week's Monday Night Football game here

[z Revis]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Nice preview. Lol, kidding.

Big game for both teams. I got the Packers winning this one though. I think the Packers have the advantage on both sides of the ball. I think it'll be a somewhat low scoring defensive battle, though.

20-12, Packers.

[wwharton]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

I don't know about the Pack having the advantage on both sides of the ball, lol. I do like them though. Ten days rest, playing at home, may be snowing... sounds like all signs point to a Packers victory.

I don't see Suggs being back for this game and the Ravens cornerback issues aren't going away (Washington's out for the year)... I think Webb is going to take advantage of more playing time though. I really like that kid. The Ravens will move the ball. I'm worried more about them keeping Rodgers and company in check than putting up points. I think the winner fo this game will have at least 30 points.

Since it's a toss up to me and I'm a Ravens fan, I'll say Ravens 35 - Packers 30. But honestly, all signs are pointing toward a Packers win here.

[z Revis]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

I don't know about the Pack having the advantage on both sides of the ball, lol.

How so? You don't think they have a better offense and defense? I do. And I especially do for this game since Suggs is out again.

[roadman]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

I don't know about the Pack having the advantage on both sides of the ball, lol. I do like them though. Ten days rest, playing at home, may be snowing... sounds like all signs point to a Packers victory.

I don't see Suggs being back for this game and the Ravens cornerback issues aren't going away (Washington's out for the year)... I think Webb is going to take advantage of more playing time though. I really like that kid. The Ravens will move the ball. I'm worried more about them keeping Rodgers and company in check than putting up points. I think the winner fo this game will have at least 30 points.

Since it's a toss up to me and I'm a Ravens fan, I'll say Ravens 35 - Packers 30. But honestly, all signs are pointing toward a Packers win here.

Was wondering when you would chime in.

Let me know what you think about this scouting report on the Ravens. The writer agrees the secondary is a weak point, but also mentions Flacco a weak spot at the moment. The writer states that Flacco has his stats going down hill the past 4 games.

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/78287347.html

[wwharton]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

How so? You don't think they have a better offense and defense? I do. And I especially do for this game since Suggs is out again.

Well I know you do, since you just said it in the post before me, lol. Suggs was out last game as well as Washington. Ngata was out the two games before that I believe. All teams have injuries. Suggs being out isn't something you can just ignore, and I can see it contributing to a loss, but I also saw Kruger for the first time and he made the game sealing interception.

I'd take Ray Rice over anybody on the Packers. They have a tough run defense but I don't think they'll stop the Ravens from running. They also have amazing corners but that doesn't mean much in terms of stopping Rice either. I also don't think they'll get TOO much pressure on Flacco which means there should be time for him to hit Mason or Clayton. The Ravens will move the ball.

On the other side of the field, unfortunately the Ravens haven't been getting much pressure on QBs even with Suggs healthy. They're going to have to call up some nice blitzes and that remains to be seen. I don't think Jennings has been right all year. I don't think we have a corner that can stick with him when he's right but don't know what to expect from him. Driver could do some damage as well as Nelson or Jones getting a big play.

As for the question, I'd say they're two different teams. I think the Packers do what they do better on offense than the Ravens but mostly in terms of consistency. The Ravens haven't really been in the middle, just either up or down. On D, it's the same... they're different. I think the Ravens are a bit better at what they do (stop the run, deal with the pass knowing they can't run) than the Pack (solid all around). That's not how I'd look at this game though bc what the Ravens do well on D goes against what the Pack do well on offense, and even though the Pack have been good against the run I think the same is true on the other side.

[wwharton]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Was wondering when you would chime in.

Let me know what you think about this scouting report on the Ravens. The writer agrees the secondary is a weak point, but also mentions Flacco a weak spot at the moment. The writer states that Flacco has his stats going down hill the past 4 games.

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/78287347.html

Blah... it's for insiders only. Can you pull a few key quotes and summarize?

I don't know what he said about Flacco but I wouldn't go on his stats. He looked noticeably uncomfortable when LT Gaither wasn't playing (you know how that goes all too well). I think that's when he really started getting back in the habit of zeroing in on Mason too much, which was his big problem last year. Unlike last year (which I could never understand) the Bengals and Browns basically put all their energy in keeping Mason from getting the ball and Flacco couldn't adjust. Last week Clayton had over 100 yards and the last couple of weeks he's been looking at Kelly Washington a bit more again. He just needs to spread the ball around. Mason and Rice are hard to stop but you can't ONLY go to them. I think that's been effecting his stats.

He's also been dealing with ankle/foot injuries for weeks now. I think that's why his passes have been going high a lot, and he hasn't run as much (and they haven't called as many roll outs). Since he's not on the injury report it's hard to tell if it's getting better or it is what it is. He's been doing ok with his decisions though. The pass to Rice in the Colts game that was picked off was a bad play call. He did what he needed to do against MIN (damn kicker), NE (Clayton dropped a ball that hit him in the gut) and IND (they were in fg range on that last play)... and even the 2nd Cincy game the idiot kicker missed one that would've cut the lead to 7 after a good drive.

I think Flacco was getting too much love early in the season but he's doing ok for his second year. I wouldn't put him on Rodgers level or anything, but he's not my worry this Monday.

[roadman]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Blah... it's for insiders only. Can you pull a few key quotes and summarize?

I don't know what he said about Flacco but I wouldn't go on his stats. He looked noticeably uncomfortable when LT Gaither wasn't playing (you know how that goes all too well). I think that's when he really started getting back in the habit of zeroing in on Mason too much, which was his big problem last year. Unlike last year (which I could never understand) the Bengals and Browns basically put all their energy in keeping Mason from getting the ball and Flacco couldn't adjust. Last week Clayton had over 100 yards and the last couple of weeks he's been looking at Kelly Washington a bit more again. He just needs to spread the ball around. Mason and Rice are hard to stop but you can't ONLY go to them. I think that's been effecting his stats.

He's also been dealing with ankle/foot injuries for weeks now. I think that's why his passes have been going high a lot, and he hasn't run as much (and they haven't called as many roll outs). Since he's not on the injury report it's hard to tell if it's getting better or it is what it is. He's been doing ok with his decisions though. The pass to Rice in the Colts game that was picked off was a bad play call. He did what he needed to do against MIN (damn kicker), NE (Clayton dropped a ball that hit him in the gut) and IND (they were in fg range on that last play)... and even the 2nd Cincy game the idiot kicker missed one that would've cut the lead to 7 after a good drive.

I think Flacco was getting too much love early in the season but he's doing ok for his second year. I wouldn't put him on Rodgers level or anything, but he's not my worry this Monday.

Interesting, I'm not an insider, but I can read it.

Here is the top part.

I'll break this into three's.

It won't exactly be a cast of shrinking violets on the visiting sideline Monday night when the Baltimore Ravens meet the Green Bay Packers at Lambeau Field.

"They're a confident group of guys, no matter what their record is," an executive in personnel for a recent Ravens' opponent said. "I can promise you they will show up. They're not going to be easy to beat. They never are."

Baltimore (6-5) won its first three games, lost three in a row and has been on a win-one, lose-one jag ever since. On Sunday night, they beat Pittsburgh in overtime, 20-17.

"I think they're pretty beat up because that game was really physical," an assistant coach for a recent Ravens' foe said. "Playing at home, I'll give Green Bay the edge. The Ravens are not the defense people used to fear playing against. If Green Bay scores 21 points, Baltimore will have a tough time."

Quarterback Joe Flacco's diminished performance in the last month is reflected by the Ravens' scoring average of 14.5 in Weeks 8-11 compared to 28.4 in Weeks 1-7.

"Watch the two Cincinnati games," an opposing assistant said. "They about killed (Flacco). He is a tough guy, but he's not the same quarterback he was last year. I think Dom Capers will get after their (expletive)."

Although Terrell Suggs, their best pass rusher, won't play because of a knee injury, the Ravens run a diverse defensive scheme that has proven difficult to attack for non-divisional opponents.

"We play them twice a year and know how to account for the way they jump around all the time and the (expletive) they do," an official for an AFC North team said. "Teams that don't see it often can be in trouble because you'll have a lot of unblocked guys if you don't account for it correctly."

Cornerback, which is the Ravens' worst position, doesn't bode well for their matchup against the Packers' receiving corps.

"As long as they can protect, Green Bay will be able to throw the hell out of the ball on them," another assistant said. "But the Ravens will be smelling blood. They'll be trying to bring pressure from every which way. If the Packers turn the ball over and can't protect, they'll get beat."

[roadman]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

OFFENSE

SCHEME

Second-year coordinator Cam Cameron calls the plays (43.3% run). He uses more two-back sets than most teams. Cameron likes to max protect, fake the run and throw downfield from deep drops. The Ravens rank tied for fourth in fewest turnovers (13), 12th in points (23.4) and 13th in yards (353.4).

RECEIVERS

Derrick Mason (5 feet 10½ inches, 195 pounds) is averaging 14.1 yards, which if it stands would be his highest in a season since 2001. He's one of those guys who just knows how to get open: short, intermediate, deep. Even in his 13th season, Mason is by far the Ravens' No. 1 WR. Mark Clayton (5-10½, 190) can get deep occasionally and is tough inside but rates as a very ordinary starter. No. 3 Kelley Washington (6-2½, 217) has used his big body effectively on third down from the slot. Injuries and declining speed have knocked Todd Heap (6-4½, 245) from the ranks of the leading TEs. He has an excellent feel for the passing game, catches everything and is a smart, wall-off blocker. L.J. Smith (6-3, 245), a starter in Philadelphia during most of his six-year career, has made little impact.

OFFENSIVE LINE

C Matt Birk (6-4½, 309) is in his 12th season, whereas none of the other four starters reached the NFL before 2007. Birk, who took $5 million in bonuses to leave Minnesota on March 4, isn't nearly the player he once was. He has lost strength, quickness and speed. At this point, Birk is trying to get by on his smarts (38 on the Wonderlic intelligence test). LT Jared Gaither (6-9, 340), a fifth-round supplemental-draft pick in '07, is an improving second-year starter. Gaither has immense arm-span and tries hard. He's also somewhat stiff and susceptible to outside and inside moves. Rookie RT Michael Oher (6-4½, 310), the 23rd pick, has been adequate. He handles bull rushers but struggles sliding his feet against edge rushers and has missed too often in the run game. LG Ben Grubbs (6-2½, 315), the 29th pick in '07, has been more of a persistent than dominating blocker. He battles, works hard to lock on and finish, and probably ranks among the top 10 to 15 guards in the league. RG Marshal Yanda (6-4, 313) blew out his knee in Week 5 last season and didn't regain his job until Sunday. Yanda is more physical than Chris Chester (6-3½, 315) but isn't much of an athlete.

QUARTERBACKS

Joe Flacco (6-6, 235), the 18th pick in '08, is a pure pocket passer with a strong arm. He has been playing on a bad right ankle since Oct. 18. Recently, he has thrown way too many ugly, off-target balls. Flacco, who scored 24 on the Wonderlic, has absorbed some beatings and his play has suffered. Scrambling Troy Smith (6-0, 225), who has two starts in three seasons, is No. 2.

RUNNING BACKS

Ray Rice (5-8, 210) has emerged as one of the NFL's premier backs in his second season. Willis McGahee (6-0½, 235) remains a solid player and FB Le'Ron McClain (6-0, 260) rushed for 902 yards as a fill-in RB in '08, but Rice beat them both out. For his size, Rice runs very hard and almost never goes down on first contact. His 40-yard dash time of 4.47 seconds is good, and he might be even faster in pads. He is an exceptional receiver who presents matchup problems for LBs out of the slot. And he will stand in tough on blitz pickup. McGahee, a three-time 1,000-yard runner, generally is used to run outside. Built low to the ground, the highly emotional McClain packs a mighty wallop, both as a runner and blocker, and also is a capable receiver.

[roadman]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Sorry for the triple posting, just thought it was easier to divide up.

DEFENSE

SCHEME

When fourth-year coordinator Rex Ryan departed to coach the Jets, LB coach Greg Mattison was promoted to replace him. Mattison, a 1967 graduate of Madison East High School, runs a 3-4 scheme that often becomes a 4-3. He has blitzed more lately. The Ravens rank fourth in points (17.1), 10th in yards (308.9) and tied for 16th in takeaways (17).

DEFENSIVE LINE

DT Haloti Ngata (6-4, 345) is an elite player. He has phenomenal strength and rare range (5.13 40 speed) for his bulk. However, he has been hobbling on a bad ankle. NT Kelly Gregg (6-0½, 315), a starter since '02, missed all of '08 with a knee injury and isn't all the way back. He's rugged, knows how to play and still has enough quickness to be effective. DE Trevor Pryce (6-5½, 290), DE Dwan Edwards (6-3, 305), DT Justin Bannan (6-2½, 310) and NT Brandon McKinney (6-2, 360) also play extensively. Pryce has 88½ sacks in 13 seasons but is a part-time player now and nearing the end. Edwards does a reliable job against the run but provides no rush. Bannan, 30, has a big heart and is hard to budge. McKinney is hard to move but can't move, either.

LINEBACKERS

Possibly the best player on defense has been SLB Jarret Johnson (6-2½, 265), a fourth-round pick in '03 and a four-year starter with a career-best six sacks after 11 games. He's a relentless overachiever who delivers a lot of punishment. SILB Ray Lewis (6-0, 250), a 10-time Pro Bowl pick, is an encompassing team leader. A student of the game, he diagnoses plays almost instantly. He has a knack for slipping blocks. He has lost his sideline-to-sideline speed, struggles shedding blocks and has problems in man coverage, partially due to a bum ankle. WILB Tavares Gooden (6-1½, 242) has been splitting time with rookie free agent Dannell Ellerbe (6-1, 243). Gooden, a third-round pick in '08, runs (4.59) fast and hits hard but isn't as stout at the point as Ellerbe, a top athlete with so-so instincts. With Terrell Suggs (knee) out, Jameel McClain (6-0½, 250) is playing. A free agent in '08, his best attribute is the ability to bull rush. Energetic rookie Paul Kruger (6-4½, 260), a second-round pick, is a narrow-based, one-dimensional speed rusher.

SECONDARY

Ed Reed (5-11, 200), regarded as one of the NFL's top three safeties, plays a deep center field and uses his uncanny instincts to make big plays. Quarterbacks never know where he'll end up. Once a hard hitter, Reed's ongoing neck problems have turned him into an arm tackler. SS Dawan Landry (6-1, 210), who missed 14 games in '08 with a neck injury, does the dirty work near the line. He's OK. Problems were evident at CB even before marginal starter Fabian Washington (knee) went on injured reserve last week. RC Domonique Foxworth (5-11, 180) runs 4.35 but has been beat like a drum and now is giving excessive cushion. Plus, he's soft in run support. Replacing Washington was rookie Lardarius Webb (5-10, 175), an extremely impressive third-round pick from Nicholls State. Webb can run (4.39), is learning how to cover and is a big hitter. Nickel back Chris Carr (5-10, 180) is vulnerable. Erratic former Packer Frank Walker (5-11, 200) is the dime.

[shnuskis]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

On paper I think the Packers have the edge. And that is before you mention it is at home with a longer rest. But Baltimore is a physical team that gets after you and are always a tough opponent. Ray Rice is a beast as well as some studs on the D. I am cautiously optimistic about the Packers chances but will not be suprised either way. It will be a great game.

[LBzrule]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Was wondering when you would chime in.

Let me know what you think about this scouting report on the Ravens. The writer agrees the secondary is a weak point, but also mentions Flacco a weak spot at the moment. The writer states that Flacco has his stats going down hill the past 4 games.

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/78287347.html

Flacco's stats are down because we haven't been getting TD's and we haven't run the ball well or consistently whether that be from the gun or under center. We changed the OL lineup and moved Yanda in and did a lot better job on the interior, which was the biggest problem. He passed for 250 + and 1 TD against Pitt. As an offense we put up over 400 yards against Pitt. He didn't throw an INT vs Pitt which is good. I don't like him in this game against Charles Woodson though. Not with our current WR cast. He needs a big play WR to take advantage of his arm. Dez Bryant anyone LOL.


With all that said, I'll take the Packers. Woodson will shut down whoever he is covering and if we don't get any pressure up front, I don't like our secondary matching up against GB WR's.

[wwharton]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Damn, I wish I was an insider. That's a Packer guy? Those are some pretty good break downs. A couple of slight errors (McClain was a Raven in 08... he became a free agent and then was picked back up if I'm not mistaken; I also don't know if I'd call Flacco a pure pocket passer. He's not Steve Young but he's not Peyton Manning either. I'd actually say he's like Rodgers) but nothing that changes the break downs. I think the tone of most of those are negative, for obvious reasons, but overall that's pretty good.

Getting to the overall analysis, I think this is a pretty good quote:

"I think they're pretty beat up because that game was really physical," an assistant coach for a recent Ravens' foe said. "Playing at home, I'll give Green Bay the edge. The Ravens are not the defense people used to fear playing against. If Green Bay scores 21 points, Baltimore will have a tough time."

We were saying earlier that it seems like you guys would be in good position for this game and bad position for next week bc we played PIT last week and you'll play PIT after playing the Ravens. It's also true that it isn't the same D, even if everyone was healthy. There are more holes and Ryan did a better job of hiding holes last year too. I don't know about the Ravens being in trouble if GB gets 21 though. The offense can score, it just hasn't been consistent. I think a better ending to that paragraph would be "Green Bay could score 30 on this Ravens team, which would make Baltimore have a tough time."

This part is a bit off too:

"Watch the two Cincinnati games," an opposing assistant said. "They about killed (Flacco). He is a tough guy, but he's not the same quarterback he was last year. I think Dom Capers will get after their (expletive)."

As mentioned later, Cincy plays Bmore twice every year AND are coached by Marvin Lewis (2000 Ravens D Coordinator). They ALWAYS give the Ravens problems. I also think the second CIN game was either when Gaither got hurt or he didn't play at all. Flacco is ten times better than he was last year. Last year he would've had a couple of picks in those CIN games he's talking about. Actually the Ravens would've tried to run 40 times to protect him. Flacco's problems have been the injury and zeroing in on Mason and Rice. Now there's a good chance these are still problematic but Capers will probably look at film and pick his spots more than that assistant thinks.

Finally:

"As long as they can protect, Green Bay will be able to throw the hell out of the ball on them," another assistant said. "But the Ravens will be smelling blood. They'll be trying to bring pressure from every which way. If the Packers turn the ball over and can't protect, they'll get beat."

Agree with that 100%, and would put more money on GB getting good protection most of the game. The Ravens will need turnovers.

[roadman]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Yeah, he is the Packers beat writer for the Milw. Journal Sentinel. Every week we are treated with his in-depth anaysis.

I appreciate the feedback vs a beat writer for the Packers.

He has a book out now about every game of the SB I think.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/66766992.html

The Ultimate SB Book.

[wwharton]

Re: Week 13: MNF Ravens @ Packers

Nice. Yeah he definitely does his homework. Man I'm almost as excited for this game as I was last week for PIT. That's crazy. Where the hell is PPM?