Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

[phillysouljah]

Guess the QB!

QB #1: 94-71 record and 165-141 TD-INT (plus 9 rushing TD's)
QB #2: 95-64 record and 199-157 TD-INT (plus 6 rushing TD's)

QB #2 had a higher winning % and a much better TD-INT ratio. He was more likely to win games and more likely to score (QB #1 threw 165 TD's in, coincidentally, 165 regular season games; QB #2 threw 199 in 6 LESS games), with less relative INT's.

QB #2 is Phil Simms. QB #1 is Troy Aikman.

Of course, Aikman did win 3 Super Bowls; Simms only won one, although he led his team to a 11-3 record and a playoff berth before breaking his foot and backup Jeff Hostetler won a Super Bowl.

Now that's not to say Phil Simms didn't get close! He was unlucky enough to lead the Giants in the playoffs against some of the NFL's greatest teams. This is Phil Simms in the playoffs:

He lost in 1984 in the divisional round to the 49ers who would go on to win the Super Bowl. The next season, the Giants beat the 49ers in the wildcard round but lost to the 85 Bears in the divisional round. The next year, he threw 4 TD passes in a 49-3 blowout of Montana's 49ers and would go on to win a Super Bowl (and have possibly the greatest Super Bowl performance by a QB ever). Lost to the Rams in 89 then to the Steve Young 49ers in 1993 in the divisional round.

I'm sorry but losing to the 84 49ers and the 85 Bears! Let Phil Simms play against anybody else but two 18-1 teams that were probably the second and third/fourth best teams to ever play the game!

And Simms did it with a ragtag group: a running game headed by Joe Morris or Otis Anderson... a rag-tag group of receivers led by TE Mark Bavaro and including the likes of Mark Ingram and Lionel Manuel.

While his counterpart in Dallas had the NFL leading rusher and one of the game's greatest WR's in Michael Irvin.

Yet Simms' HoF prospects are laughed at yet Aikman was a first-ballot. What gives?


And to pre-empt any but Bill Parcells' 3-4 defense was so good... Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Harry Carson... okay, fine. But Aikman had a defense that was just as good, if not better statistically. The Giants were the a top-10 defense in total yards a few years during Simms' tenure but also jumped around a bit (11th in 88, 18th in 92) but let's look at the Cowboys:

1992: #1
1993: #10
1994: #1
1995: #9
1996: #3
1997: #2

Troy Aikman during the peak of his career never had a defense worse than top-10! Hell, the Cowboys defense was usually in the top-3!

Vinny Testaverde could've been playing for the Cowboys during the 90's and would have won 3 Super Bowls easily!

[mestevo]

Re: Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

A lot of irrelevant context, Aikman had great stats and won 3 Super Bowls, that makes him stick out as part of a dynasty and that's why he's in. Making a case for a candidate doesn't involve a lot of it's and buts like this post does though.

Simms had some pretty good seasons and has 1 ring, but is that enough?

Players like Aikman, Favre, Brady, Roethlisberger and others with multiple Super Bowl rings in addition to their statistical achievements show how high the bar can/should be for a quarterback's career, as a result making it harder for people like Simms to make it in.

It's another Hall of Pretty Good argument, not Hall of Fame (Like the Bledsoe thread). He may seem to have the credentials, but might take a slow/off year for it to happen - if that.

[fugazi]

Re: Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

In truth, he probably belongs.

It seems more a sad matter of circumstance, more than anything.

[phillysouljah]

Re: Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

Aikman had great stats

What great stats?

I already showed he threw fewer touchdowns in more games, had a worse TD-INT ratio and a worse winning percentage.

Aikman's highest yardage total came in 1992 when he threw for 3445 yards. ONLY 3445 yards as his single-season high!

His most TD's also came in 1992 when he threw 23!

Does having never thrown 3500 yards in a season in his career and averaging 13.75 TDs per season indicate great stats to you? Only ONCE did he throw 20 or more TDs.

Even Phil Simms had a 4000 yard season.


Honestly, my argument isn't that Phil Simms belongs in the Hall. It's that what gives that Troy Aikman, who was clearly an inferior player surrounded by a boatload of talent, was a first-ballot and supposedly one of the greatest, yet Phil Simms' HoF prospects are practically laughed at? Phil Simms was a better QB with less rings. How much do 3 Super Bowls matter here?

It's said getting A ring is the icing on the cake. Does getting 3 rings erase statistical mediocrity and a state of being surrounded by greats when you're incredibly mediocre?

If Trent Dilfer won 3 Super Bowls would he be a first-ballot HoFer (Plunkett sure isn't with his 2)? Aikman was effectively a luckier Dilfer. I mean Dilfer had 2 20+ TD seasons, twice that of Aikman!

[CW McGraw]

Re: Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

Aikman was never going to get gaudy volume stats with an all time great like Emmit Smith to hand off to. For a QB on that kind of team, you look at the efficiency numbers. In an era where 60% completion was a big deal, Aikman had above 60% completion for 6 straight years. Emmit was the reason why the Cowboys were a great team in the regular season. Aikman was the reason why they won three Super Bowls.

[SPTO]

Re: Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

In truth, he probably belongs.

It seems more a sad matter of circumstance, more than anything.

Nails it on the head. I do think if Simms had been on the field at SB XXV and the Giants had won (no sure thing as the Giants simplified and went with a more "kill the clock" game plan with Hosstetler compared to what they would've done with Simms) then I think he probably gets in.

Simms was a really good QB for a long time but I think some things haunted him. The first 5 years of his career he was one of the most fragile QBs in the league and was always in danger of losing the starting job. His rise as a QB coincided with the Redskins and Cowboys in the East being powerhouses which put the spotlight away from NY. Remember this was in an era when the media was a lot fairer to teams outside of the Northeast.

Another bad set of circumstances happened with Ray Handley taking over as coach in '91-'92 as he yanked Simms out of the starting role and gave it to Hosstetler which robbed Simms of two full seasons really.

In a lot of ways fate was a cruel mistress to Simms.

[shnuskis]

Re: Why is Phil Simms not in the Hall of Fame?

I don't think either one belongs. As far as Simms, he was never mentioned in conversations about who was the best QB at the time he played. Montana, Elway, Marino, Boomer, Dan Fouts, Joe Theismann, Warren Moon and Cunningham can all be argued to be ahead of Simms and no one would try to argue for him to be the best at his position at any point in his career.

He has fantastic stats and a ring. But that isn't all that there is to it. How did he stack up to his contemporaries.