Joe Gibbs calling it quits

[NYJets]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mr.Burns

The fact that Coles didn't want to stay in Redskins land is why you consider him a team cancer? I'm not sure I ever heard that about Laveranues before, nor that he drops passes on the regular, definitely not during the times I watched the Jets games in the past.

Coles is a guy who will talk a lot and speak his mind, but he's not a guy who will let that affect his play. He might spend the week complaining and venting, but he'll always work hard in practice and give it everything he's got in games.

[SkinsBoYee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mr.Burns

The fact that Coles didn't want to stay in Redskins land is why you consider him a team cancer? I'm not sure I ever heard that about Laveranues before, nor that he drops passes on the regular, definitely not during the times I watched the Jets games in the past.

He was a little lack luster in that final year as a skin. Yes, I do think he is a solid player and plays with fire...but when you force a team to trade you and cause basically a 10 million cap hit that forces other moves to be made by the team to get under the cap....I call that a problem.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by SkinsBoYee

Coles...yeah, had a couple decent years. Was no game changer by any means..and do you remember all the drops? Was also a team cancer. How do you get a true HOF coach coming to your team and you demand a trade? Is that team player? Is that who you want on your squad? He might have put up numbers during the Spurrier days, but hell...he was the only WR we had who could run a route and actual get open? Do you deny that? Yes, I agree with you. I view things thru the eyes of a biased fan. You get no arguement from me on that. I do remember the Skins D was half decent during Spurrier. You are correct. But they where no where near as consistent and tenacious as they are now under the Gibbs 2.0 period. As far as picks... I will have to just disagree with you. Way to many Tony Manderich's, Akili Smiths, Tim Couches, Heath Shulers, KiJana Carters, Lawrence Phillips, Dam Mcgwire's, Andre Johnsons', Pat Ramseys, Mike Williams, Blair Thomas's, Ryan Leaf's.....I could go on and on. Should I? And didn't mean to say he didn't tarnish his legacy. Sure..it was not what we ultimately what we wanted, but again I say, he turned a train wreck of an organization, into somewhat of a rebounded franchise. Yes, he did make mistakes...and made some huge ones this year. I do think some of the moves, after all is said and done, especially if Campbell is given time to grown under what ever new regime comes in...will show how well Gibbs did in the front office. Again, I know mistakes where made (Llyod, Duckett, Arch) but the good far out weighs that. Ok, fine...I can't write anymore... you win. hahahah...so you a Skins fan or a Ravens?

I think a lot of your thought process is driven by bias. And I know it's hard to believe this, but I don't mean that in a bad, "you're a blind homer" sort of way. Just selective memory, kind of like when you get out of a relationship, your memory is usually driven by who dumped who. I won't go point for point... I accept your white flag.

I'm a Ravens fan. Born and raised in Baltimore and lived there my entire life besides college. I work in Northern VA and began following the Skins a lot after the Colts left so I still like them. I've got a lot of friends that are skins fans too.

Quote: Originally Posted by SkinsBoYee

We was a little lack luster in that final year as a skin. Yes, I do think he is a solid player and plays with fire...but when you force a team to trade you and cause basically a 10 million cap hit that forces other moves to be made by the team to get under the cap....I call that a problem.

This is about Coles (since it's not in the quote). His last year he had a nagging finger injury if I'm not mistaken... that'd explain more drops than normal. Outside of that year I don't think there was a year he's been in the league that he hasn't been solid at worse. His leaving had a lot to do with him not wanting to be part of Snyder's fantasy plans. He throws big numbers out there and demands restructuring or move out... that's how they manipulate the cap. Snyder also made some messed up comments about Coles during their negotiation. You're being WAY too hard on him.

I think Soldier nailed it pretty well in his post but I don't even give too much credit for some of those things. Smoot was dying to come back. Springs was a pressure signing b/c people were so pissed about losing Bailey. They had to find someone to replace him and Snyder through a ton of money at Springs. I think you also have to add the way Lavar was handled to the negative side of things too, as well as what they've let Portis get away with when there are obvious game examples of how its hurt them (preseason play talk, taking himself out of games when he wants to, etc).

I really don't like debating how bad Gibbs was b/c I think he's a great coach and an icon and deserves all the praise he gets. But you gotta be honest... Kareem sucked at the end of his career, Jordan, the player in DC did more damage than good, and Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. It wasn't a house burning in flames (example, it wasn't Spurrier) but he didn't really bring the team any closer than they were before Spurrier. Look at the record, playoff appearances, championships. He made the right call.

[heitkamp94]

Legendary coach, but its no surpsise. The Skins havn't been terrible lately but they can't quite get over the hump. This is a good job with some nice talent left in the cupboard. I thought I remembered them saying a few years back that Williams would get the job, but who knows what Snyder will do.

[ODogg]

He should have never came back.

[SkinsBoYee]

ODogg...just for that I send curses your way this weekend. Dam you Cowboy fans..I guess its comforting to know that Gibb's last victory was over your sorry arsed team! lol!

[SkinsBoYee]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

I think a lot of your thought process is driven by bias. And I know it's hard to believe this, but I don't mean that in a bad, "you're a blind homer" sort of way. Just selective memory, kind of like when you get out of a relationship, your memory is usually driven by who dumped who. I won't go point for point... I accept your white flag. I'm a Ravens fan. Born and raised in Baltimore and lived there my entire life besides college. I work in Northern VA and began following the Skins a lot after the Colts left so I still like them. I've got a lot of friends that are skins fans too. This is about Coles (since it's not in the quote). His last year he had a nagging finger injury if I'm not mistaken... that'd explain more drops than normal. Outside of that year I don't think there was a year he's been in the league that he hasn't been solid at worse. His leaving had a lot to do with him not wanting to be part of Snyder's fantasy plans. He throws big numbers out there and demands restructuring or move out... that's how they manipulate the cap. Snyder also made some messed up comments about Coles during their negotiation. You're being WAY too hard on him. I think Soldier nailed it pretty well in his post but I don't even give too much credit for some of those things. Smoot was dying to come back. Springs was a pressure signing b/c people were so pissed about losing Bailey. They had to find someone to replace him and Snyder through a ton of money at Springs. I think you also have to add the way Lavar was handled to the negative side of things too, as well as what they've let Portis get away with when there are obvious game examples of how its hurt them (preseason play talk, taking himself out of games when he wants to, etc). I really don't like debating how bad Gibbs was b/c I think he's a great coach and an icon and deserves all the praise he gets. But you gotta be honest... Kareem sucked at the end of his career, Jordan, the player in DC did more damage than good, and Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. It wasn't a house burning in flames (example, it wasn't Spurrier) but he didn't really bring the team any closer than they were before Spurrier. Look at the record, playoff appearances, championships. He made the right call.

I still can't say it say it was all bad like you are saying Wwharton... I just can't do it. If its blind biasness, dam, I always thought I could be subjective....but guess not. I am looking at it solely from the perspective of where we where before Gibbs 2.0 as opposed to now. I will take the now. For that, I think he did a decent job. Yes, job not complete...but a decent job.

What you feel about Belick (excuse the spelling) getting the can? Been reading Next Man Up about the 05 Ravens I believe....(great read if you have yet to read)...he was a solid coach and I like his style (a little similiar to Gibbs) but I was shocked he got the can. Yes, he was supposed to be an offensive genious and there offense has been just that in the last 7 years...but still, shocked I am.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by SkinsBoYee

I still can't say it say it was all bad like you are saying Wwharton... I just can't do it. If its blind biasness, dam, I always thought I could be subjective....but guess not. I am looking at it solely from the perspective of where we where before Gibbs 2.0 as opposed to now. I will take the now. For that, I think he did a decent job. Yes, job not complete...but a decent job. What you feel about Belick (excuse the spelling) getting the can? Been reading Next Man Up about the 05 Ravens I believe....(great read if you have yet to read)...he was a solid coach and I like his style (a little similiar to Gibbs) but I was shocked he got the can. Yes, he was supposed to be an offensive genious and there offense has been just that in the last 7 years...but still, shocked I am.

All bad? Not at all. And I think the Skins are in a great position right now. I think a new coach was needed to get them to the next level but they've got a good nucleus of players in place. I actually hope Williams gets the job b/c the coaching staff can be a good one, and if they hire someone else, it'll probably be an entire new staff.

It seems like you think of Gibbs 2.0 as the Spurrier years. The entire organization looked a mess... actually to the point where a name like Gibbs was the only thing that could get the fans optimistic. It was the perfect decision to hire him, and overall, it had the exact effect the team needed. So I think I agree with your point of view.

Difference is, I go back to when Marty was the coach. He came in with the team also stuck in mediocrity. They started slow, learning "Marty ball" but went on a tear once they got it. I think if Marty stayed, the skins would've had a similar jump to the Packers from last year to this year. So I don't think the team itself was that far away. The team has had talent throughout all of that time. So to me, after Gibbs 2.0 I don't see any improvement at all over that span. I think it should've been a given that the next coach would improve on what Spurrier did, and a lot of Gibbs' contribution came from him just being Gibbs, not coaching. Hope that makes more sense.

I'm one of the few around here that liked Billick. He's a smug guy but he's also happily been the fall guy for all that's been bad in the organization over the years. Ozzie's thought of as a god (rightfully so IMO) while Billick takes the blame for all of the QB and WR problems over the years? Billick's just the coach, Ozzie's the GM. The bad years that the Ravens have had (despite all the criticism of the QBs) were b/c of injuries to key players, which means lack of depth. That's also on the GM. Billick's never even blinked when taking all the heat for this stuff, including open criticism from players on the team to the media.

He made some bad calls and decisions early this season though. I'd say throughout the season, but he deserves some slack b/c of the insane number of injuries the team had to deal with this year. McGahee should've been used a lot more and it clearly seemed like he was just stubborn with that and the QB issue. I thought he deserved another year considering they were 13-3 last year and killed by injury this year. But I also didn't think he coached very well this year, outside of the Pats game, so can't say I'm surprised about the firing.

Mainly, the "successful" Ravens have never had a head coach other than Billick, so I'm kind of worried about that... how long it will take to adjust, how the new guy takes the heat, etc. A lot of Ravens players have already shown they have no problem speaking out against the coach in the media and even on the field in a game (ugh), so the wrong guy could really set the team back.