How good is Tony Dungy?

[slickdtc]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

Huh? Didn't the Colts defense rank 11th in 2003, 11th in 2005, 1st in the 2006 Playoffs, 3rd in 2007..???? They've been above average a lot of years. And they make the plays when they need to. And last year they were very good. Ok, so because he had good players on defense means it wasn't him that turned that defense around? It was the players? What? Name a defense that's tops in the league that doesn't have good players..please, do it. The Colts don't have the right players and personnel to be a great defense. Dungy has done a phenomenal job defensively with the Colts considering the lack of talent that they have. Give him Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Bart Scott, Chris McAlister, Haloti Ngata...etc, that defense will be top 5 every year.

I agree with this post. The Colts defenses have improved in the years Dungy has been there. At the beginning of his tenure, the Colts offense was the catalyst and the defense was just along for the ride. But around their Super Bowl year, the defense started playing well and became a real threat for Indianapolis.

Maybe he's a product of the places he's been. But you can't deny his track record. It's very good.

[wwharton]

Not denying his track record at all... or even calling him a product of the places he's been. But rather saying his path is eerily similar to other coaches while the perception of him is much different. The same "excuses" made here I could make for the other coaches I've mentioned but it seems something about them doesn't bring fans to their defense so quickly.

BTW, the Colts D has improved since Dungy got there and I don't think that's a fluke... I also believe that players can only get so good and if he lucked into a couple more good players he could have the D everyone expected from him. Even now (and especially the superbowl year), you just take Bob Sanders off the field and the D is just as bad as his early years there. But the facts are the D has improved but over the course of his Indy career, it'd be called average and the O is basically Manning's baby.

[grunt]

but Billick offenses never got off the ground. He was an offensive genius when he had Moss, Carter, Smith, etc but in Bmore he could never get his offense going. I think Dungy did his part in making the Colts d playoff calibur but Billicknever really had a playoff calibur offense.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Honestly, I wouldn't even call it a playoff calibur Defense imo.

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Honestly, I wouldn't even call it a playoff calibur Defense imo.

why wouldn't you?

[z Revis]

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Honestly, I wouldn't even call it a playoff calibur Defense imo.

They're good enough man. Their defense is wierd. I'm telling you. They'll struggle all game and then the one time when the team needs them to come through, they come through...example:last night vs the Jags. They're an above average defense that can be veryyyy dangerous at times. If Peyton gives that defense a 10 point lead, you better believe Mathis and Freeney are going to pin their ears back and come straight after that QB every time..probably force some bad throws and force an interception or a fumble...boom game over. It's just the way that defense is built. They're not built for defensive battles at all. They're built to play with the lead. When they have the lead, teams are forced to throw and that's when they play very good. But they've proven multiple times that when the Colts need them to come through...they come through.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

but Billick offenses never got off the ground. He was an offensive genius when he had Moss, Carter, Smith, etc but in Bmore he could never get his offense going. I think Dungy did his part in making the Colts d playoff calibur but Billicknever really had a playoff calibur offense.

You can't say that. Billick saw how dominant the defense was and model the best offense to support it. That collection of offense and defense won the Ravens a superbowl and has had them in the playoffs for most of the years that Billick was the coach. Like Dungy it wasn't the dominant unit that everyone expected but it was molded to support the side of the ball with the superstars.

Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan

Honestly, I wouldn't even call it a playoff calibur Defense imo.

I'd agree with this. Like Revis just said, they are "good enough" much like Baltimore's offense has been "good enough" but I wouldn't call either playoff caliber b/c if either team needed to lean on that unit, everyone would bank against it happening.

[N51_rob]

wwharton, I see now the point you are trying to get at. Honestly I don't know. I have a hard time believing that he could be successful (multiple playoff apearences) in say Detroit or Oakland. He has had talent on one side of the ball or another everywhere he has gone. Either offensively or defensively. I would also like to look at his coaching tree. Off the top of my head he has Kiffen and Tomlin. Though I don't think Monty would've ever gotten a HC job in the NFL.