Bye Bye Brett

[coljesep224]

If he is healthy and wants to play they really don't have a choice but to bring him back though

[metallicatz]

Quote: Originally Posted by coljesep224

Just in regards to your comment about Chad winning the MVP. He shouldn't. I mean he fit into the system he wasn't the REASON for their success. Very rarely did he have to come up with a big time pass for their team to win. QBs alone you can't tell me he was more valuable than Peyton, Warner, Brees or even Rivers. Peyton will win the MVP.

Peyton will win the MVP, it doesn't mean he deserves it. Peyton didn't have an MVP type season....hell, he couldn't even score against the Browns. Pennington:

- finished only behind Rivers in passer rating.
- led the league in completion %
- Helped execute probably the biggest turnaround in NFL history
- led the NFL with a 2.7-1 TD:INT ratio

Take away Chad and how many games do you think Henne wins? Take away Peyton and how many does Sorgi win? I bet Sorgi wins more than Henne.

[Spectre]

I'm not saying Chad will win but he absolutely needs to be in the discussion. I wouldn't be shocked if he wins it though- most voters know that without Chad, this team would have been horrendous. Manning had Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne to throw to- Chad had Anthony Fasano, Davone Bess, and Ted Ginn. Not saying the Dolphins players aren't talented, but its amazing he was able to throw for 3500 yards with that personnel.

[coljesep224]

Yeah but Miami's offense was not designed for a QB to have to be an MVP. Chad didn't WIN them games. Their scheme and design did which is why Sporano is coach of the year. Look I'm all for chad's story and I am sure he will be comeback player of the year. But you can't tell me that he was more VALUABLE to his team than Peyton was to the Colts. Let's not forget this is a Colts that was 3-4 to start and won it's final 9 to get to the playoffs. You can't base an MVP award based on the team's performance last year. Its not a career award.

Peyton lead his team to victory directly more than Chad did. Chad benefited from a new style of offense (if you say Peyton had 3 receivers, you can say Chad benefited from the run game) and Miami's defense was much more vital to miami winning games than Chad was.

[metallicatz]

No player wins games by themselves, I don't care who they are. And yes, I think Chad was more valuable to the Dolphins than Manning was to the Colts. I've no doubt in my mind that had both teams been without both players the Colts would've won more games than the Dolphins. Also consider that Chad is statistically the most accurate passer in NFL history. That means nothing within the context of one year, but there's alot to be said for playing mistake-free football and putting the ball exactly where it needs to be more than anybody else. And nobody did that better than Chad did this year. and while you don't give awards based upon last year, the MVP award is designed to take into account the big picture. And within the framework of the big picture Chad led the Dolphins from 1 win to 11 and a division title.

And Manning's poor play early in the season is a big reason why they started so slow. It's not like he lifted them from the mediocrity of everyone else. He was sucking every bit as bad as his teammates in those losses.

[coljesep224]

"No player wins games by themselves, I don't care who they are. And yes, I think Chad was more valuable to the Dolphins than Manning was to the Colts. I've no doubt in my mind that had both teams been without both players the Colts would've won more games than the Dolphins. Also consider that Chad is statistically the most accurate passer in NFL history. There's alot to be said for playing mistake-free football and putting the ball exactly where it needs to be more than anybody else."

You're acting like Chad blew Peyton away. Chad was more successful by .60 percent. Regardless, your assesment of Sorgi taking the Colts or Henne taking the Colts is totally ridiculous. #1 you can't prove or disprove any of it. Henne is the QB of Miami's future, so how do you know what he can or couldn't do working with a team with an excellent defense and an offense based on the speed or brown williams and ginn. You don't. Bottom line in terms of Miami's VALUE... their defense was their #1 value to winning games. Colts VALUE lies with Peyton Manning.

[WazzuRC]

I think Donald Trump said it best:

"Brett Favre is disgusting, both inside and out. You take a look at him, he's a slob. He talks like a truck driver. I loved [the failure of Favre with the Jets] it, I gloat over it, I think it's wonderful because I like to see bad people fail. Brett failed, I'm happy about it."

He continued:

"I believe Eric [Mangini] made a terrible mistake putting him on, and I think Eric's probably paying a big price," he said. "If I were running The Jets, I'd fire Brett. I mean, I'd look him right in that fat ugly face of his, and say, 'Brett, you're fired.' "

[metallicatz]

Quote: Originally Posted by coljesep224

You're acting like Chad blew Peyton away. Chad was more successful by .60 percent. Regardless, your assesment of Sorgi taking the Colts or Henne taking the Colts is totally ridiculous. #1 you can't prove or disprove any of it. Henne is the QB of Miami's future, so how do you know what he can or couldn't do working with a team with an excellent defense and an offense based on the speed or brown williams and ginn. You don't. Bottom line in terms of Miami's VALUE... their defense was their #1 value to winning games. Colts VALUE lies with Peyton Manning.

No, I don't think Chad "blew Peyton away"......I simply think he was more instrumental to his team's success than Peyton was in 2008. Look at the players around Manning and then take the same look at the players around Pennington. It's not even close. You're giving Manning all the credit and giving none to the Colts defense or guys like Reggie Wayne or Dallas Clark. And then you're giving the Dolphins defense all the credit and Chad very little of it. As for Sorgi vs. Henne.........the smart money would be on Sorgi. Again, look at the supporting cast for both teams and tell me Henne would be better off than Sorgi. And then take into account that Sorgi has spent 4 years studying uner Peyton Manning in a proven offensive system and has seen what it takes to win to the very pinnacle.

The arguments you're making for Manning are media arguments. You've provided zero actual football data to make your case. But let's take a look at a few more facts since i'd like to address your claim that the Dolphins offense "isn't set up for an MVP season":

- Only 12 QB's in the league have more passing attempts than Chad
- Only 8 QB's have more passing yards
- Only 5 QB's have larger yards per attempt

Now i'd like to examine some defensive stats to address your claim that the defense, and not Pennington, is the prime reason for the Dolphins turnaround:

- Dolphins are 15th in total defense
- Dolphins are 15th in yards per game
- Dolphins are 10th against the run
- Dolphins are 25th against the pass
- Indianapolis ranks higher than Miami in all but one of those categories (seems Peyton has a better defense to work with than Chad)

You can use this link to sort through each of those categories.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...on=2&year=2008

If you want to go off the logic of the Peter Kings of the world, then Peyton is your guy. If you want to look at the cold hard facts, they point to Chad Pennington.