Are the Colts underachievers?

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by N51_rob

But you are using half of the information to make your case. They also only gave up 188 passing yards per game. (6th in the NFL) You can use stats just about any way that you want to prove a point. 123 yards sounds bad, but if I say they were only giving up 30 rushing yards a quarter doesn't sound as bad. But if you keep a team to 17 points and you have a 1st ballot HOF QB in his prime on your team with some of the best weapons around you should win.

But if you can't stop the run, and a shifty little guy like Darren Sproles has a career day on you then you shouldn't.

The team is fatally flawed, and perhaps...just perhaps they were so much better against the pass because teams ran more on them anyways.

They were 26th in the league in rushing attempts against their D w/ 472....Baltimore was #1 w/ 366.

Teams only passed 9 more times on the year than they ran so obviously they'll be better in pass D if teams pass less against them.

[N51_rob]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBH3

But if you can't stop the run, and a shifty little guy like Darren Sproles has a career day on you then you shouldn't. The team is fatally flawed, and perhaps...just perhaps they were so much better against the pass because teams ran more on them anyways. They were 26th in the league in rushing attempts against their D w/ 472....Baltimore was #1 w/ 366. Teams only passed 9 more times on the year than they ran so obviously they'll be better in pass D if teams pass less against them.

Since you picked Baltimore lets look at that last line. Teams passed 162 more times against Baltimore and they still gave up less yards through the air than the Colts. Teams are passing more against them and they still have a better pass defense.

I understand the point that you are getting at. I do agree that the Colts defense has hurt them but only during the regular season. In the playoffs the defense has played better, but the offense which has had all this fire power has underproduced. That is the point that Cebby was making and I agree with him in that regard. Even in the Super Bowl you could argue that Rhodes was more deserving of the MVP than Manning but that award was his from the opening kick-off as long as the colts won.

[edaddy]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBH3

But if you can't stop the run, and a shifty little guy like Darren Sproles has a career day on you then you shouldn't. The team is fatally flawed, and perhaps...just perhaps they were so much better against the pass because teams ran more on them anyways. They were 26th in the league in rushing attempts against their D w/ 472....Baltimore was #1 w/ 366. Teams only passed 9 more times on the year than they ran so obviously they'll be better in pass D if teams pass less against them.

I agree...I think the problem with the Colt's is that they don't have a Playof Offense or Defense meaning that they can't get physical when they need to..perfect example was last week..by all rights the Colt's should have put that game away on several occassions including numerous short yardage situations but they couldn't because they can't control the clock and pound out the short yards because they aren't physical and the offense wasn't built to be physical...The Defense is simply too small up front and it can't stop the run when it has to...I am also personally not fond of the type of cover 2 prevent the deep pass but give up the short yardage D they play...It keeps defenses on the field longer and that bend but don't break D only works against aterrible Red Zone offense...True the Colts have a bunch of holes in the roster due to their contract situation but they still have more talent than the majority of NFL teams...I also think Dungy just got outcoachd last week not by Turner but by Rivera..The concept of not getting into your Defense until inside of 10 seconds on the playclock totally befuddled Manning ....That will be the blueprint to beat Manning from now on...The Colts need a physical runner (Edge needs to come bacK)...some monsters up fropnt and a partial change in philosophy on Offense and Defense...

[wwharton]

lol, people obviously run the ball more, skewing the ranking of the pass D. That's like looking at a basketball team who's allowed the fewest 3 pointers in the league but the most layups. Of course teams would rather have a layup. If any NFL team can run the ball with ease, they will.

I don't understand at all how one can think the offense is independent of the defense when it's been proven over and over (and over) that it's not true... and it's not even that complicated. Good defenses put offenses in good field position. Offenses play better from ahead than behind. Opposing defenses can make teams one dimensional if they get a nice lead or lead at certain times in a game. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. You can't pull out a stat sheet and post how many points a teams' had in a few games and say it's the offense that's killing them. That's the worse possible way to use stats.

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by N51_rob

Since you picked Baltimore lets look at that last line. Teams passed 162 more times against Baltimore and they still gave up less yards through the air than the Colts. Teams are passing more against them and they still have a better pass defense. I understand the point that you are getting at. I do agree that the Colts defense has hurt them but only during the regular season. In the playoffs the defense has played better, but the offense which has had all this fire power has underproduced. That is the point that Cebby was making and I agree with him in that regard. Even in the Super Bowl you could argue that Rhodes was more deserving of the MVP than Manning but that award was his from the opening kick-off as long as the colts won.

Where are you getting 162 from because on both NFL.com and ESPN.com the # of PAA's for BAL is 528 to Indy's 481 which is only a 47 PA difference.

Teams pass more against Baltimore because it's more successful to pass on them then to run...If you want to consider passing against them as being 'successful'.

[tmulk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cebby

And the Colts aren't a comparison with the teams of "Jordan's run."

Best player of the era? Check (Manning). Superstar to compliment him? Check (Harrison). Fantastic Role Players? Check (Clark, Wayne, Edge James, Addai). One of the best minds in the game? Check (Dungy).


How CAN'T this team be compared with Jordan's Bulls? The defense has never been dominate, but Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeny are both elite defensive players in this league. They should have won at Least 2 Championships, if not 3 or 4.

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

lol, people obviously run the ball more, skewing the ranking of the pass D. That's like looking at a basketball team who's allowed the fewest 3 pointers in the league but the most layups. Of course teams would rather have a layup. If any NFL team can run the ball with ease, they will. I don't understand at all how one can think the offense is independent of the defense when it's been proven over and over (and over) that it's not true... and it's not even that complicated. Good defenses put offenses in good field position. Offenses play better from ahead than behind. Opposing defenses can make teams one dimensional if they get a nice lead or lead at certain times in a game. Offense wins games, defense wins championships. You can't pull out a stat sheet and post how many points a teams' had in a few games and say it's the offense that's killing them. That's the worse possible way to use stats.

EXACTLY...Which is where I was going to go...That is the name of the game.

Since Manning was put in horrible field position w/ 6 punts in the 20 he was asked to basically go 80 or more yards up the field. Its hard for any offense to do that once or twice let alone 6 times.

The defense wasn't helping any giving up field position either.

And for this people want to say they underachieved???

Please.

[JBH3]

Quote: Originally Posted by tmulk

Best player of the era? Check (Manning). Superstar to compliment him? Check (Harrison). Fantastic Role Players? Check (Clark, Wayne, Edge James, Addai). One of the best minds in the game? Check (Dungy). How CAN'T this team be compared with Jordan's Bulls? The defense has never been dominate, but Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeny are both elite defensive players in this league. They should have won at Least 2 Championships, if not 3 or 4.

Delusional...check...

There was this little team in Boston which had arguably the same type of QB, a run game, and a defense which was as stout as they come...

Emphasis here on that team winning because of ... wait for it....

DEFENSE!