NFL Hall of Fame class of 2009

[Alliball]

Quote: Originally Posted by MassNole

How would Winslow have left SD? By the time the Chargers would have put him on Plan B, he would have been washed up. I appreciate Winslow was a great player, but it doesn't mean players haven't come along since who are better at the position than he was in his day. That is just what happens in sports. Shannon Sharpe is a better TE than Winslow was, he was an integral part of multiple championship teams. He caught passes, he blocked, he was a leader, he did it all for the Broncos and then later helped the Ravens. I think he gets a bit too much respect because of the nostalgia of his career. We seem to live in an era when we don't want to believe modern players are better than those who came before them. Sharpe and Tony Gonzalez have passed Winslow as the benchmark for the position, which I am sure is a bitter pill for Chargers fans to swallow given they play for AFC West rivals.

Currently the sole benchmark for TE's sits with Gonzalez. As for the bitter pill, please. I look at players for who they are not who they play for.

I think John Elway is the best QB to ever play the game, but that's for another thread all together.

[redskinrussell]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

HOF equals a fantasy league. So, how many ol men from the great redskins team go in the hall?

As a huge Skins fan I'd love to see a few of them get in but that just wont happen. I think only 2 have even a shot... Grimm and Jacoby. I personally think Jacoby should get in over Grimm, because of the durability. I would not be surprised if neither of them make it in though. I can live with Riggo, Green, Monk and Gibbs being the only people from those great Skins years in the Hall.

[ftball11]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZB9

People have been saying that about Bullet Bob Hayes for a long time. The reason Carter isnt in is because most of the folks voting dont seem to know how to judge WRs. Carter will get in eventually, but Hayes's family has been waiting for over 30 years. Of course, he should have been voted in a while ago, while he was alive.

Bob Hayes was long overdue.

[rdawsoniii]

Unfortunately the NFL Hall of Fame is now the Hall of Very Good.

Bob Hayes and Randal McDaniel are not Hall of Fame material. Neither is Cris Carter, though I'm sure he'll get in some day, and neither is Michael Irvin.

The quality of inductees gets more watered down as time goes on. The Hall of Fame should be for the TRULY great players...not just those who put up a lot of stats.

[Alliball]

Quote: Originally Posted by rdawsoniii

Unfortunately the NFL Hall of Fame is now the Hall of Very Good. Bob Hayes and Randal McDaniel are not Hall of Fame material. Neither is Cris Carter, though I'm sure he'll get in some day, and neither is Michael Irvin. The quality of inductees gets more watered down as time goes on. The Hall of Fame should be for the TRULY great players...not just those who put up a lot of stats.

McDaniel was a 12 time Pro Bowler and 7 time 1st team All Pro. How else do you suggest we judge a gaurd?

[MassNole]

Quote: Originally Posted by Alliball

McDaniel was a 12 time Pro Bowler and 7 time 1st team All Pro. How else do you suggest we judge a gaurd?

Minimum 13 time pro bowler and 8 times all pro I suppose.

[rdawsoniii]

Quote: Originally Posted by Alliball

McDaniel was a 12 time Pro Bowler and 7 time 1st team All Pro. How else do you suggest we judge a gaurd?

Certainly not by the number of Pro Bowls. The Pro Bowl is packed with guys who get in based on popularity or reputation.

I judge a guard...or any lineman...or any player for that matter...by how they have separated themselves from others by their innovation, dominance, etc.

Was McDaniel a truly dominant player (like Jim Brown, Dick Butkus, Jerry Rice, etc.)? Did he do things very few others had done before? No. He was very very good, but not "elite".

So he made a bunch of Pro Bowls. Good for him. All-Pro? Something to be proud of, but being among the best at the time he was playing doesn't mean you are Hall of Fame material.

I guess I have higher standards of a Hall of Fame than most. To me, a Hall of Fame should be only for the truly great....men who stand head and shoulders above and apart from others.

But I don't decide who gets in and who doesn't. Neither does anyone else on this board. So what we think doesn't really matter.

[PrettyT11]

Quote: Originally Posted by rdawsoniii

Certainly not by the number of Pro Bowls. The Pro Bowl is packed with guys who get in based on popularity or reputation. I judge a guard...or any lineman...or any player for that matter...by how they have separated themselves from others by their innovation, dominance, etc. Was McDaniel a truly dominant player (like Jim Brown, Dick Butkus, Jerry Rice, etc.)? Did he do things very few others had done before? No. He was very very good, but not "elite". So he made a bunch of Pro Bowls. Good for him. All-Pro? Something to be proud of, but being among the best at the time he was playing doesn't mean you are Hall of Fame material. I guess I have higher standards of a Hall of Fame than most. To me, a Hall of Fame should be only for the truly great....men who stand head and shoulders above and apart from others. But I don't decide who gets in and who doesn't. Neither does anyone else on this board. So what we think doesn't really matter.

Maybe now days the pro bowl has players getting in on popularity but he played during the 90's. Plus lineman get in based on what they did more than anything. But regardless of that he set the RECORD for linemen with twelve straight starts.

Yes he was "elite" during his time and olny Bruce Mattews is on his level as a guard. Talk about innovation and dominance. How many other guards have lined up at fullback on multiple situations. It's hard to compare linemen to RB's and WR's but he was just as dominant at his position during his time as any of those guys. The man was the starting guard on the all decade team for crying out loud. That means he was the BEST guard in all of the NFL for at least 10 years. How can that not be considered "elite"??

What I don't get though is you say you have a higher standard for Hall of Famers and they should be elite and stand head and shoulders above their peers but yet you say Kurt Warner is a no doubt Hall of Famer. He doesn't stand head and shoulders above his peers and it definantly isn't an "elite" career. Randall is without a doubt one of the best guards in NFL history. It's funny you are the only guy at all that thinks he isn't worthy.