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Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

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Old 06-06-2009, 01:27 PM   #65
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

You know, if guys like Warner, Brady, and Manning are sissies that couldn't make it in the Dead Ball Era, what attributes did you need to be a great Dead Ball QB?
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:27 PM   #66
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesdereuter
Montana benefited more from Bill Walsh and playing in that system. There have been better QBs than him.
Then explain his time in KC. The man was a shell of his former self but an unbiased person would have to admit he made the Chiefs better when he was on the field. Yes they ran the WCO but it was a more run based version of the one Montana ran in San Fran so let's not say it's the exact same scheme.

BTW what you say about Walsh can be said for just about any QB that's done amazing work on the field.

I will simply agree to disagree on your assessment of Montana and I respect your opinion.


Shotgun Styles I think Montana would've done well before the rule changes provided he was on a team with a good to great O-Line. Rice could probably thrive before said rule changes but he wouldn't hold every record imaginable.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:15 PM   #67
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Manning is just a skinny guy with a gut. He can't run worth a damn, doesn't make people miss or have great vision to set up blockers. He can throw accurately while running to his right. That's about it. I'd say about half of the adult males in America can accomplish that feat, so it's not special.
Explain why half of adult males in America don't have a Super Bowl ring, a Super Bowl MVP award, three NFL regular season MVP awards, and aren't making millions of dollars in the NFL and from endorsements (much less why every quarterback in the NFL hasn't accomplished this).

It's bold assertions like this that make it take away from your credibility in my eyes, as Peyton Manning is unequivacobly the best quarterback I have ever seen play yet you quite shamelessly bash him as just an average no-talent schmuck. His accolades speak for themselves; he quite clearly isn't, and for you to say that he is is rather rash at best.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:24 PM   #68
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgun styles
Injuries are part of the game. Without injuries we would have no Kurt Warner, and we would have no Tom Brady. Get more talent at the position and people will be excited about what the backup can do rather than dreading what he can't.
This is video game thinking, and why guys don't have to be monsters to like things like dog fighting (sorry for the cross reference to THAT but it's true). Are NFL players cattle? You're looking at the team as a whole from a fan's perspective, and ignoring that these are human beings. They have a union full of retired players with insane health issues. It's almost sad the damage these guys do to their bodies for fame and money (and of course, the love of the game). I'm VERY happy the NFL doesn't think "injuries are part of the game" and are trying to give us a quality product while also protecting the human beings on the field.

And the next argument will be that QBs are protected more than other players. Punters and place kickers are actually protected more and for logical reasons. The players at the most obvious risk for serious injury are protected more. More accurately, situations where the most serious injury can occur has the most or strongest rules. It just so happens that many of those situations are possible from the QB position.

Man, I really like reading your posts. You know what you're talking about and present good arguments, but there's no way to not see this thread as just a front for an agenda. Your arguments are good but many just don't match the conclusion your trying to make. I mean going as far to say any man could have the accomplishments of Peyton Manning? Really? You were zeroed in on your predetermined agenda when you formed that thought.
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:48 PM   #69
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

There's seems to be an assumption that physical talent is the only trait needed to be an NFL QB.. Plenty of guys with gobs and gobs of physical talent have flamed out at the position. And plenty of guys with less talent have been succesful for various reasons.

I don't see the overall level of QB play being any different than it has been for the last 30 years of football that I have watched. There are some very good QB's, some good ones, and then some bad ones. There are teams that perpetually seem to be trying to fill that position. It's the same as it's been for just about ever.

Now as more and more college teams switch to spread type offenses. I am curious to see what affect that has on the league. Imo, that stunts the growth of the player at that position. But I guess we'll see.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:45 PM   #70
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPTO
Then explain his time in KC. The man was a shell of his former self but an unbiased person would have to admit he made the Chiefs better when he was on the field. Yes they ran the WCO but it was a more run based version of the one Montana ran in San Fran so let's not say it's the exact same scheme.
Yeah, and KC had a better defense at the time than a lot of teams also. And as you say, KC being more run-centric would open up the pass, no? Youre kind of undermining your point. And yes, KC did bring in SFs OC when they acquired Montana.


Quote:
BTW what you say about Walsh can be said for just about any QB that's done amazing work on the field.
Its true that Marino had Shula and such but the very proliferation of the WCO just goes to show how much it was Walsh.

Quote:
I will simply agree to disagree on your assessment of Montana and I respect your opinion.
Im not saying Montana wasnt good. But best ever? Not hardly. There are a number of QBs like Elway and Marino who could have won SBs with SF during those years (if not more). And, actually later, Young was even better than Montana.
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Old 06-07-2009, 12:54 AM   #71
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CW McGraw
You know, if guys like Warner, Brady, and Manning are sissies that couldn't make it in the Dead Ball Era, what attributes did you need to be a great Dead Ball QB?
A missed place sense of nostalgia
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:12 AM   #72
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Re: Poor QB play is rampant in the NFL. Who else has a theory as to why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwharton
Man, I really like reading your posts. You know what you're talking about and present good arguments, but there's no way to not see this thread as just a front for an agenda. Your arguments are good but many just don't match the conclusion your trying to make. I mean going as far to say any man could have the accomplishments of Peyton Manning? Really? You were zeroed in on your predetermined agenda when you formed that thought.

I agree with with this and stated the agenda feeling of the thread early on. I agree with a lot of what shotgun is saying, but I also see a grey area with rules, definition of what is good/bad qb play, and what is needed for great qb play. But because it doesn't feel like a give and take exchange of ideas(more of a lecture without trying to gain from others perspective) I have chosen to stay out of the conversation for the most part. There have also been some wild assertions made that seem to lack logic, that leads me to think the opinions shotgun has can't be reasoned with. So I don't try.

(This isn't meant to discourage or rile you up shotgun, just my opinion. Like I said, I agree with most of your points, at least up to a point.)
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