Who Are You 5 Current or All Time Best/Worst Coaches in the NFL.

[CW McGraw]

Why does no one give Tom Landry **** for his winless season. Hell, the Cowboys didn't have a winning season until 1966.

[shnuskis]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

I only named one Steelers coach. So yeah, I may lose cred with you Pack fans, but not with Dallas, Miami, Cleveland and Frisco fans. Is he better than Shula, Knoll, Landry, Walsh and Brown. Case by case, tell me why Lombardi is better than each.

So this is a homer thing huh? Well if that is the case I may as well pass. I have no interest in knocking anyone elses list as they are all great coaches. Besides, case by case, they all have an angle you can take to counter what ever I say. It would be a pointless excercise as you have your opinions and you would be out to prove me wrong.

But I will say I have read a lot about all but Brown(only sparingly.) I take what the players who played for the coach to mean more than anything, such as records or inovativeness(which I already demonstrated in Vince's case.) The words of the players themselves under Vince stood out with two other coaches I have read about, John Wooden and Bobby Knight. Of all the coaches mentioned, their players loved them all. I get that. They all created great locker room atmospheres, all motivated, all inovated. But it was what people who were closest to him had to say that made him stand out.

You have been going on about toughness of what the NFL used to be and should be today. I can't imagine you not being completely enthralled with the stories of Vince and what he had to say.

[SPTO]

Quote: Originally Posted by shnuskis

John McKay was a great man. That doesn't constitute a great coach. 2 winning seasons in 9 years, more imporantly 7 losing seasons in 9 years(unlike the Fischer arguement of 6 winning seasons in 15 years because he only had 5 losing seasons) When we discussed this in June, I did some research and don't know where it is now and don't really care to find it again. But I found that in that 76 season he gave up on the team. I mean completely gave up. He didn't talk or interact with a player for the last few weeks of the season. For this, he deserves a spot on my worst list.

McKay was dealt a raw hand, consider the fact that he came from a winning program in USC to going to an expansion NFL team with the worst talent ever compiled. Bearing this in mind it's a little more understandable why he may have given up on the team because they were so horrid. He at least built up a top caliber defense and if it wasn't for the cheapness of the Culverhouse family he would've been able to add to the offense.

He's not on my worst of all time list simply because he stuck it out unlike the influx of college coaches we've seen who have given up in circumstances that PALES in comparison to what he had to endure in Tampa Bay. If given the money and confidence of management he would've had more success IMO.

[shnuskis]

I think you guys defending John McKay as a good coach need to go and search his quotes and compare them to quotes from the great coaches listed here. He was the leader of that team for 9 years. Look at the quotes and dates of those quotes. A great coach would have changed that culture and that organization. He didn't. He made jokes about it. He settled for the culture the owners created instead of making it his own the way a great coach does when he shows up. Do you really think Parcells, Knoll, Shula, Brown, Walsh, and dare I say Lombardi, would have allowed that kind of culture?

http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/p...8121/mckay.htm

He was a great guy, funny and well liked. But a great NFL coach...ah, no. He deserves the mention.

[CW McGraw]

No one is saying McKay is an all time great, but given the unwinnable hand he was dealt, he performed admirably. If by 2011, the Lions were in the playoffs, we'd be praising Jim Schwartz as a GOAT.

[shotgun styles]

Quote: Originally Posted by shnuskis

I think you guys defending John McKay as a good coach need to go and search his quotes and compare them to quotes from the great coaches listed here. He was the leader of that team for 9 years. Look at the quotes and dates of those quotes. A great coach would have changed that culture and that organization. He didn't. He made jokes about it. He settled for the culture the owners created instead of making it his own the way a great coach does when he shows up. Do you really think Parcells, Knoll, Shula, Brown, Walsh, and dare I say Lombardi, would have allowed that kind of culture? http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/p...8121/mckay.htm He was a great guy, funny and well liked. But a great NFL coach...ah, no. He deserves the mention.

We're not saying he's an all time great. We're saying he's NOT an all time worst. There are just too many Sabans, Kiffins and Petrinos out there for McKay to get anywhere NEAR the worst 5.

[TheWatcher]

Nick Saban wasn't that bad. There were FAR worse coaches than Nick Saban. I thought he did a pretty good job in his first season, posting a winning record with a team that I didn't think would win 4 games, and I think there were a ton of injuries, too.

Kiffin had to coach a circus so I can't really put him that Worst ever category. If he coached any other team maybe, but no one can succeed in Jokeland basically because of Al Davis.

[shnuskis]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

John McKay was a great coach, and I would have loved to play for him.

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

We're not saying he's an all time great. We're saying he's NOT an all time worst. There are just too many Sabans, Kiffins and Petrinos out there for McKay to get anywhere NEAR the worst 5.

If he isn't an alltime great, what is he a part time great? You did say he was a great coach. I gave very good examples as to why he is not a great NFL coach and why he is deserving as mention in the worst 5. Kiffin and especially Petrino were in worse situations than McKay. Petrino quit. That is because he was less of a man than McKay. Not because he was less of a coach. Kiffin was in an organization that is in disaray from the very top with that doesn't show me they know how to put a football team togather. If you are not a yes man to Al Davis, your gone. Neither were coaching in the NFL long enough for me to make a fair judgement of them.

I went with coaches who had time to prove their lack of ability to lead a football team. I also looked into major gaphs they pulled as coaches. Not just by their records. I looked into John McKay as a coach because I figured someone would put him on their list and I wanted a reason not to have him on mine. The more I looked, the more I found I had to put him on my worst list. He enabled and contributed to the losing culture of the organization. You can make your list with the criteria you want.