Brett Favre=Mr. Overrated (Now officially back)

[jth1331]

Quote: Originally Posted by CW McGraw

QBs I consider better than Brett Favre: Joe Montana Dan Marino John Unitas Bart Starr Roger Staubach Sammy Baugh Sonny Jurgenson Otto Graham Peyton Manning Tom Brady

I'd say it is an absolute travesty you didn't include John Elway, but I saw you mentioned him later that you "forgot" him.
Statistics aren't the end all for evaluating talent. For instance, Elway's offense that he had to work with in the 80's was average at best. The defense and Elway took those Bronco teams to the playoffs and Super Bowls.

As for Favre, I think he is overrated in best QB of all time discussions. He is high on the list, but definitely not the best ever.

[CW McGraw]

Quote: Originally Posted by KSUowls

Well first I, nor do I think anyone else here, has said he is the GOAT. I consider wins to be a very telling statistic. It means he got the job done. Now you are right that he played longer, which is why I also gave his winning percentage a stat that doesn't take into account longevity. The only knock on Favre was he turned the ball over. Other than that he made big time plays, was great in the clutch, and he won games. He never had a good running game, didn't know what it was like to not have to put up 30 points to win outside of his first 5 years or so, but he still won with great efficiency. Have there been better modern era quarterbacks? I think so, but it's a very short list.

That's just not true. Ahman Green ran for nearly 2000 yards one season. IIRC, Favre threw six picks when they made it to the playoffs that year. Green ran for 1000 yards six times while playing with Favre. Dorsey Levens was elite for a period. It's true he never had an all time great RB, but what HOFer other than Aikman did? The Packers didn't always have an elite running game, but no team will have one for 17 straight seasons.

The QB you are describing is Dan Marino. In Marino's entire career, he played with one 1000 yard rusher: Karim Abdul Jabbar. You throw around Favre's winning percentage as a measure of his greatness, but Marino won around the same percentage of games while playing on vastly inferior teams.

Quote: Originally Posted by realultimatepower

Johnny Unitas had 7 seasons where he threw more INTs than TDs. They played virtually the same amount of seasons (Unitas' 17 to Favre's 18). In contrast, Unitas has 253 TDs in that amount of time, Favre has 468, 200+ more than Unitas, 25,000 more yards, a QB rating 8 points better, and fumbles weren't recorded as a stat back then, so who knows. Favre threw 70 more INTs over his career, but considering he threw 200 more TDs, its basically a wash. Brett's completion percentage is also over 60%, compared to Unitas' which is 54% + Brett's YPP is 7! Unitas also played in an era where the competition was nowhere near the depth and level that it is now. The fact that Favre holds the NFL Ironman record at QB this day in age is huge. Yet you have Unitas ranked higher than Favre? Based on what? Statistically, its not even close. When you compare teams and what they had around them, some of those Colts teams are amongst the all time teams in terms of HOF talent. Brett did not have that for the majority of his career.

If you're holding Unitas's stats to modern standards, they obviously won't look as good, but that's the worst way to compare QBs from different eras. Do you not realize how tough it was to pass in Unitas's era? Offensive linemen couldn't use their hands to block and WRs could be mauled anywhere on the field. Comparing bulk passing stats from QBs that played 50 years apart is pointless. Considering that Unitas played in an era where passing was much more difficult, the fact that his passer rating is only 8 points lower than the Great Brett Favre tells you just how great Unitas was, or conversely, how mistake prone Favre was.

[KSUowls]

Quote: Originally Posted by CW McGraw

That's just not true. Ahman Green ran for nearly 2000 yards one season. IIRC, Favre threw six picks when they made it to the playoffs that year. Green ran for 1000 yards six times while playing with Favre. Dorsey Levens was elite for a period. It's true he never had an all time great RB, but what HOFer other than Aikman did? The Packers didn't always have an elite running game, but no team will have one for 17 straight seasons.

It's not about having an HoF at RB, it's about having a good ground game. These are the NFL rankings for Green Bay's/NYJ rushing offense
21, 22, 19, 26, 11, 12, 25, 21, 23, 21, 12, 3, 10, 30, 23, 21, 9

That works out to be an average finish of 18, and 10 of those seasons they were outside of the top 20.

Quote:

The QB you are describing is Dan Marino. In Marino's entire career, he played with one 1000 yard rusher: Karim Abdul Jabbar. You throw around Favre's winning percentage as a measure of his greatness, but Marino won around the same percentage of games while playing on vastly inferior teams.

Favre's career win % is .628
Marino's is .613

I won't get into the Favre vs. Marino debate, but from a passing/rushing offense and defensive perspective there was little difference between the Green Bay and Miami teams.

Quote:

If you're holding Unitas's stats to modern standards, they obviously won't look as good, but that's the worst way to compare QBs from different eras. Do you not realize how tough it was to pass in Unitas's era? Offensive linemen couldn't use their hands to block and WRs could be mauled anywhere on the field. Comparing bulk passing stats from QBs that played 50 years apart is pointless. Considering that Unitas played in an era where passing was much more difficult, the fact that his passer rating is only 8 points lower than the Great Brett Favre tells you just how great Unitas was, or conversely, how mistake prone Favre was.

I didn't so much want to compare Unitas' stats to Favre only to point out the fallacy I found one of your comments. Basically you said that Unitas was better because he invented the modern passing game.

However, I will say the stats I did put up certainly seem to be biased toward Favre and the modern generation. Part of the reason its so hard to compare players from different eras.

[marshallfever]

I had no clue he had 3 consecutive MVP titles. that right there spells HALL OF FAME. Wether you like it or not, having awesome stats tends to say something. He has records that probably won't be broken for years to come, he was an awesome QB. I haven't been into football long, probably around 8 years now, but he's an awesome QB in my eyes even though i can't stand the guy

[steelcurtain311]

I agree completely with how overrated Favre is. He gets away with things that other QB's would get drilled over. Instead the media just goes "Oh it's just Brett having fun! What a guy!! Only Brett Favre!!!" The fact is, he would consistently make some of the dumbest throws and decisions I've ever seen any QB make. He would kill his team at times with the dumb INT's. He's the most overrated QB ever.

[ProfessaPackMan]

LOL I'm starting to sense a pattern here. It seems to me that most people's main gripe is that the Media would hype him up and "Awwwwww, look at Brett having fun" moments and use those reasons to call him overrated.

[ClemsonTiger81]

Quote: Originally Posted by steelcurtain311

I agree completely with how overrated Favre is. He gets away with things that other QB's would get drilled over. Instead the media just goes "Oh it's just Brett having fun! What a guy!! Only Brett Favre!!!" The fact is, he would consistently make some of the dumbest throws and decisions I've ever seen any QB make. He would kill his team at times with the dumb INT's. He's the most overrated QB ever.

yeah, i would agree with you...but sorry, "other qbs" DON'T have back to back to back MVP awards in their trophy case. And "other qbs" DON'T have back to back Super Bowl appearances (active right now, only Brady can say that) and with all the other awards and records and Hall of Fame career...I would say the guy has the right to "have a little fun." it IS a GAME after all. Its supposed to be fun. Guess Bret is the only one that got that memo

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by marshallfever

I had no clue he had 3 consecutive MVP titles. that right there spells HALL OF FAME. Wether you like it or not, having awesome stats tends to say something. He has records that probably won't be broken for years to come, he was an awesome QB. I haven't been into football long, probably around 8 years now, but he's an awesome QB in my eyes even though i can't stand the guy

His first MVP still doesn't sit well with me. I still think Jerry Rice should've gotten it. QB's always get favored especially if they have a big name, just like Peyton Manning last season... no way was he the most valuable player in the league last year.