Home

crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

This is a discussion on crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team within the Pro Football forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Pro Football
MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
New Star GP Review: Old-School Arcade Fun
Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-11-2009, 10:08 PM   #65
MVP
 
PrettyT11's Arena
 
OVR: 17
Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nza
But 3rd season in the league after some regular season experience. I think it's a fairly even comparison. At any rate, my major point was Steve wasn't much of a passer at first, either.
But you can't compare the two when it comes to passing and the intangibles and skills of the QB position. Hell Elway, Young, Farve and many others had lower QB rating than Vince two in thier second and/or third year. DO you think you could compare them to Vince as a passer as well??

Like I said before Steve and Vince is not an accurate or fair comparison. Steve was always a passer first and a passer who could run dating all the way back to his college days. He doesn't hold all the all time records for passing in 1AA by being a runner.

Vince was a runner and a runner first who happened to improve his passing. He didn't become a good passer until his last college season and even then it was a very simplified system when it comes to making reads on your recievers, reading the defense, and dropping back from under center. The almost always lined up in the shotgun and never really had more than one or two reads for his recievers. He has a lot of work to do to become anywhere close to the passer McNair was.
PrettyT11 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 08-11-2009, 10:28 PM   #66
ZB9
Hall Of Fame
 
ZB9's Arena
 
OVR: 28
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 18,394
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkrich83
Uh, the defense and special teams in particular stepped up when they were winning the previous year. VY gets the credit, but it was a lot more than him that turned that team around.

For example, people always talk about the TD run he had that won the game vs. the Texans that year. They forget about the long kick return that set that play up. Or the returns for TD's that got them in to games.

VY played pretty well for a young QB, but he was not the engine that led that Titans team by any stretch of the imagination.

Timely forced turnovers and big plays in special teams were as much a reason as anything he did leading that offense.
the defense was ranked dead last in the league that season...but I agree with you that you cant always tell everything by looking at statistical rankings in a vacuum
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...on=2&year=2006

defense and special teams were obviously a big part of their turnaround from 0-5 that season, but VY setting rookie records and leading comebacks was a big part as well. He brought a lot of energy and national attention to the franchise. The new energy made quite a difference in contrast to the vibe that the franchise had the year before, and was a major factor in the turnaround (as well as the gradual improvement of the defense throughout the season of course, and like you said, the special teams)

Last edited by ZB9; 08-11-2009 at 10:34 PM.
ZB9 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2009, 10:32 PM   #67
ZB9
Hall Of Fame
 
ZB9's Arena
 
OVR: 28
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 18,394
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessaPackMan
ZB, I wouldn't put him top 5 either but he'd definitely be top 10.
hell yes, Favre HAS to be in the top 10 imo
ZB9 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2009, 10:33 PM   #68
Gatekeeper
 
bkrich83's Arena
 
OVR: 64
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 70,813
Blog Entries: 125
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZB9
the defense was ranked dead last in the league that season...but I agree with you that you cant always tell everything by looking at statistical rankings in a vacuum
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...on=2&year=2006

defense and special teams were obviously a big part of their turnaround from 0-5 that season, but VY setting rookie records and leading comebacks was a big part as well. He brought a lot of energy and national attention to the franchise. The new energy made quite a difference in contrast to the vibe that the franchise had the year before, and was a major factor in the turnaround (as well as the gradual improvement of the defense throughout the season of course, and like you said, the special teams)
I agree, the tempo changed offensively when he started to play. But people are talking here like he was the engine that drove that team.

I watched all of those games, we discussed them at length in 2006, what some people are claiming is simply not the case. He was a factor, but it wasn't like he was singlehandedly leading them to victory as some would lead you to believe. . In fact I believe they had a few victories where they scored 1 or fewer offensive TD's for the entire game.
bkrich83 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2009, 10:47 PM   #69
Nza
MVP
 
OVR: 16
Join Date: Jan 2004
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyT11
But you can't compare the two when it comes to passing and the intangibles and skills of the QB position. Hell Elway, Young, Farve and many others had lower QB rating than Vince two in thier second and/or third year. DO you think you could compare them to Vince as a passer as well??

Like I said before Steve and Vince is not an accurate or fair comparison. Steve was always a passer first and a passer who could run dating all the way back to his college days. He doesn't hold all the all time records for passing in 1AA by being a runner.

Vince was a runner and a runner first who happened to improve his passing. He didn't become a good passer until his last college season and even then it was a very simplified system when it comes to making reads on your recievers, reading the defense, and dropping back from under center. The almost always lined up in the shotgun and never really had more than one or two reads for his recievers. He has a lot of work to do to become anywhere close to the passer McNair was.
Sure you can compare them - that being, them at this stage in their careers. Again, it seems people default to this logic that Vince is a 10 year pro or something. Why can't he develop further too? If you don't think he will, fine, but that doesn't mean he can't or won't in reality.

Steve was a great passer....in 1AA. When he came to the NFL, he took a while before he was able to make the more complex reads and rely on his arm more than his leg. Vince was run-before-pass for a lot of his college career, but he was also playing tougher competition. Who knows what type of college QB Steve would have been at Texas.

Of course VY has a lot of work to do, but Steve had a lot of work to do too. He took years and years to reach a point where the Titans offense wasn't 50% handing off to Eddie George, 50% checking down to Frank Wychek. Years. And he too was quickly labelled a guy who couldn't and wouldn't. Maybe not to the degree VY has, but then the media and fan discussion mediums have developed a lot since the mid to late 90's.

Steve had about 100x the mental and physical toughness than VY has shown so far, but that doesn't mean Vince can't become a better passer.
Nza is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2009, 11:15 PM   #70
P2K
Banned
 
OVR: 34
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 8,845
Blog Entries: 4
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hova57
U have it backwards under buddy ryan he didn't give randall restraints he let randall be randall when buddy left other coaches tried to make him a pocket qb which he wasn't at the time. i can't find his coaches name but after randall mvp season he died and never got a qb coach again. i saw on the nfl network
Doug Scovil is who you're talking about. He died during Randall's second year in the league. Corrected Randall's hitch in his throw. People always wonder how Randall would've turned out if Scovil was with him longer.

As for Buddy, he and Vermeil are still the most beloved Eagles coaches. But the fans here forget that Buddy paid no attention to the offense whatsoever. He never gave Randall a running game. Thank God he had Keith Jackson...for a little while.
P2K is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2009, 07:14 AM   #71
MVP
 
Hova57's Arena
 
OVR: 31
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Blog Entries: 2
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by P2K
Doug Scovil is who you're talking about. He died during Randall's second year in the league. Corrected Randall's hitch in his throw. People always wonder how Randall would've turned out if Scovil was with him longer.

As for Buddy, he and Vermeil are still the most beloved Eagles coaches. But the fans here forget that Buddy paid no attention to the offense whatsoever. He never gave Randall a running game. Thank God he had Keith Jackson...for a little while.
he couldn't get a right tackle either .
Hova57 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 08-12-2009, 09:44 AM   #72
Once in a Lifetime Memory
 
Yeah...THAT Guy's Arena
 
OVR: 19
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 17,272
Re: crazy leinart and young could be on the outs with there team

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkrich83
Uh, the defense and special teams in particular stepped up when they were winning the previous year. VY gets the credit, but it was a lot more than him that turned that team around.

For example, people always talk about the TD run he had that won the game vs. the Texans that year. They forget about the long kick return that set that play up. Or the returns for TD's that got them in to games.

VY played pretty well for a young QB, but he was not the engine that led that Titans team by any stretch of the imagination.

Timely forced turnovers and big plays in special teams were as much a reason as anything he did leading that offense.
That can be said about basically any team in football dude. The fact is that Vince was the starting QB and he energized the team.
__________________
NFL: Bills
NBA: Bucks
MLB: Cubs
NCAA: Syracuse
Soccer: USMNT/DC United

PSN: ButMyT-GunDont
Yeah...THAT Guy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Pro Football »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:49 PM.
Top -