Dan Marino, not John Elway, is the Comeback King

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by J.R. Locke

I will take Dan Marino's demeanor, leadership and personality over John Elway.

I don't recall John Elway getting up on a podium and categorically blaming different parts of his team for why they lost even though he just threw 4 bad INT's, 3 of which were passes thrown way over the intended receivers heads, lol. That was Marino all the way.

Quote: Originally Posted by J.R. Locke

Elway forced a trade before he even played a game.

He did the right thing.

My belief is that he entered the draft which is a lot like applying for a job or posting a resume at Monster. Employers look, and they decide to bring you in. If that employer is terrible and you know it, you don't have to work there. After all, it's your career. You have that option.

The Colts were a horrible organization and he didn't want to play there, I don't blame him. The Colts sunk further into the abyss throughout the 80's, while Elway went on to a Hall of Fame career. In the end, he came out the wiser.

Quote: Originally Posted by J.R. Locke

He stunk in his 2nd and 3rd super bowls. He was carried by a great offensive line and running game in his two ring years.

I agree that without Terrell Davis, he gets no rings. But as far as offensive lines go, it's pretty much a given that you have to have at least a decent one to win a championship. If you can't protect the QB it's just not going to happen.

Quote: Originally Posted by J.R. Locke

As players they are both equally great. But I have never like Elway.

Is it just because of the trade he forced?

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by MattieShoes

Elway's SB record is abysmal -- passer rating in the 50s, only 3 TD passes in 4 games, 8 interceptions... But in general I think the postseason is highly overrated here. The better team typically wins regardless of the quarterback. If you're a wildcard team going against a great opponent who doesn't self destruct, odds are you're going to be trailing and you're going to have to throw it into pass coverage against a team that almost certainly has a great pass defense, which means you'll almost certainly throw interceptions. It's to be expected no matter who you are.

I think the expectation that a Wildcard has no shot ended a while ago now. A number of champs have been Wildcards now, and have gone on amazing runs. Especially today, the league is so evenly matched.

Quote: Originally Posted by MattieShoes

If Aikman or Montana went down, the Cowboys and 49ers were still playoff-caliber teams. Take Marino away and the Dolphins would be lucky to have a winning season.

Depends on what year you're talking in the 49ers case. If you're talking pre-Steve Young, then no, the 9ers had no shot without Montana since they didn't have a solid backup before Young that could win a championship, and even with Young it wasn't a gimme. Young wasn't a championship caliber QB for a long time. There was a long period where he lacked the killer instinct to put teams away.

With Aikman going down for the year, the season would've been over immediately. The Cowboys had no talent at backup, unless you count the year Bernie Kosar was there, and even then he lost the one regular season game he started.

[e0820]

Montana is the Comeback King, 2min drill!

[marq]

I believe Marino's last victory (before the Jax game) happened when he, facing a 3rd and 17 from Seattle's 3 yardline, drove them down the field for a TD on the road. Yes he lost to the Bills en route to 4 straight Super Bowls, but so did Montana and Elway. Yes, the Bills were actually that good. That's like saying Ted Williams was not great because he couldn't beat the Yankees. It's a ridiculous statement. And now Dan is to blame for the 62 points Jax put up on Miami? Crazy. At the end of his career, Jimmy didn't even allow him to call audibles. And it is also crazy that I saw people here saying he isn't in the conversation for GOAT. Of course he is, and that is based on the fact that despite his teams never winning the SB, he is still routinely placed in the top 7 on these "lists." The caveat is always he may be number one but he doesn't have a ring.

Like someone stated earlier, championships in football are a team accomplishment. Football is THE total team sport. You really can't base someone's career on championships in this sport because no individual can do it by themselves. Peyton Manning has a ring and he played AWFUL during that run, but his TEAM stepped up and carried him. Dan never had that, but he was still the best I ever saw...

[TheWatcher]

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

I believe Marino's last victory (before the Jax game) happened when he, facing a 3rd and 17 from Seattle's 3 yardline, drove them down the field for a TD on the road. Yes he lost to the Bills en route to 4 straight Super Bowls, but so did Montana and Elway.

Montana was knocked out of that AFC Championship game.

Elway was injured in the one AFC Title game against the Bills.

Marino had a number of tries and didn't bring his 'A' game.

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

Yes, the Bills were actually that good. That's like saying Ted Williams was not great because he couldn't beat the Yankees. It's a ridiculous statement.

No one made that statement though.

If you want to be technical, the Bills weren't the only team Marino had trouble with. He had some issues with the Patriots from time to time, too.

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

And now Dan is to blame for the 62 points Jax put up on Miami? Crazy.

I never said that. What I did accurately point out is that he didn't play well that day. That's just a fact. He is to blame for not playing well, of course Dan would blame the guy in the third row 'cause that's just the kinda guy he was, lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

At the end of his career, Jimmy didn't even allow him to call audibles. And it is also crazy that I saw people here saying he isn't in the conversation for GOAT. Of course he is, and that is based on the fact that despite his teams never winning the SB, he is still routinely placed in the top 7 on these "lists." The caveat is always he may be number one but he doesn't have a ring.

We'll agree to disagree. His attitude towards his own failures was unacceptable. That cannot be accepted from a QB. And his meltdowns in big games of his own hands (let's stop blaming everyone but him for his own bad performances), was simply too bad to ignore unless you're seriously biased.

Quote: Originally Posted by marq

Like someone stated earlier, championships in football are a team accomplishment. Football is THE total team sport. You really can't base someone's career on championships in this sport because no individual can do it by themselves. Peyton Manning has a ring and he played AWFUL during that run, but his TEAM stepped up and carried him. Dan never had that, but he was still the best I ever saw...

I'm not sure how you extracted that, but I don't think anyone is basing this on championships. And like I said and have illustrated pretty well, I feel that Montana and Elway were better QB's for lots of reasons unrelated to winning a championship. Championships have nothing to do with this.

And regardless of him being on a top list, there is still no consensus anywhere claiming he should be #1. If you can find some from an unbiased source (and I'm talking someone who isn't an obvious Dolphin fan or singular Marino fan), let me know I'd be happy to take a look.

[marq]

Quote: Originally Posted by TheWatcher

Montana was knocked out of that AFC Championship game. Elway was injured in the one AFC Title game against the Bills. Marino had a number of tries and didn't bring his 'A' game. No one made that statement though. If you want to be technical, the Bills weren't the only team Marino had trouble with. He had some issues with the Patriots from time to time, too. I never said that. What I did accurately point out is that he didn't play well that day. That's just a fact. He is to blame for not playing well, of course Dan would blame the guy in the third row 'cause that's just the kinda guy he was, lol. We'll agree to disagree. His attitude towards his own failures was unacceptable. That cannot be accepted from a QB. And his meltdowns in big games of his own hands (let's stop blaming everyone but him for his own bad performances), was simply too bad to ignore unless you're seriously biased. I'm not sure how you extracted that, but I don't think anyone is basing this on championships. And like I said and have illustrated pretty well, I feel that Montana and Elway were better QB's for lots of reasons unrelated to winning a championship. Championships have nothing to do with this. And regardless of him being on a top list, there is still no consensus anywhere claiming he should be #1. If you can find some from an unbiased source (and I'm talking someone who isn't an obvious Dolphin fan or singular Marino fan), let me know I'd be happy to take a look.

I've been on this forum for years, and I was just putting together issues that I have seen over that time when it comes to this subject. No, people did not exactly say some of the things I have commented on, but the sentiment is still there. And you can talk about injuries to Elway or Montana if you want to, but KC was not in any position to win once Montana suffered that concussion, and Elway played the full game scoring only 7 points.

Miami had a few chances to beat Buffalo, playing a great game against them in the snow during Buffalo's first SB run and putting up 34 points, but they were an all-time great team. Say what you will, but Dan will be the ONLY HOF from Miami during his era. Yes, Dwight Stevenson is there, but he didn't play with Marino long enough. These other qb's you speak of played with HOF players, MVPs, DPOY's, etc.

I'm really not here to debate you on this. There can be no winner. I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, I just think what I think. If you ever go to sportsnation on ESPN and find those lists of qb's, Marino is always in the top 3 according to people's votes. He's been on the cover of magazines with the caption being: Greatest QB ever, BUT no ring. All of these lists are subjective anyway and it's about personal personal preference.

[MassNole]

I know this is blasphemy to some but Dan Marino is the most overrated QB in the history of the NFL. In my opinion Dan Marino was to the NFL is what Klif Kingsbury was to the Big 12. He put up big numbers but never did anything else that really mattered. Unlike his contemporaries of John Elway, Jim Kelly, and Joe Montana he only got his team to the big game once where he lost. I judge a QB by winning games in the postseason and at least making the Super Bowl. I can forgive Jim Kelly for not having a ring when he gets his team to 4 straight Super Bowls against 4 really good NFC East teams. Dan Marino was in no way on John Elway's level.

[sportyguyfl31]

I absolutely detested Dan Marino, but its not a bad point really.

Marino was as good as it got. It was his narcisism, in my opinion, that was his short coming.

I'm going to stop now, I'm not in the mood to go on a Marino tirade.