Gerhart and Tebow controversies show what's wrong with the NFL...

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milbut

This is the thing that I don't understand. granted I'm in the same boat as you and I think Locker is going to be a good quarterback in the NFL, but he has never had a season with >60% completions and less then double digit ints. You can make a case that the Compl % is due to a bad supporting cast, but what does the supporting cast have to do with throwing the ball to the other team? Why do the same people who knock Tebow project Locker's game favorably? I'm not pointing this at you directly so please don't take it that way just making a general point.

Your 1st point goes a long way. Supporting cast. The talent level in college is way greater than in the pros. Tebow has played with the best talent in the nation. While Locker was playing with some of the worst talent is FBS.

Locker is a better athlete than Tebow so if you say their arms are a push Locker should be the better prospect. College numbers are so misleading. It's too much based on supporting cast and systems.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

Hi BK You're probably right that it won't be so spread heavy but I think we'll have at least a quarter to half the teams running the Spread in some form or fashion. Just look at the late '80s/early '90s when just about half the league used a form of the Run n' Shoot and that's a prototype of the current Spread philosophy.

I don't think half the teams were running the R&S.. I think a handful of teams ran it full time, and some teams borrowed some principles of it. You also saw as the league figured it out, that it went away about as fast as it arrived.

I do agree though, I think you will see some flavors of it as team packages, but I don't see a lot of teams adopting it as their primary offense.

[Amoo316]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

In the NFL you simply can not protect your QB well enough over the course of a season to do so. NFL defense are far to fast and far to complex in their schemes to get to the QB to do so.

This is one of the fundamental reasons why it may not happen and I don't think it has anything to do with all that jazz people were talking about earlier. But again that argument was made about bringing the spread to the SEC even before Tebow got there. I know the SEC is not the NFL and there is still an unbalance, but it is a good place to start looking because of the level of speed and talent in the league.

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

I guess I am not seeing it quite as shotgun happy as you are. I think the writing was on the wall, that offenses were going to be more diverse with formations and player groupings, but I don't see it becoming a strictly shotgun league anytime in the near future.

I think we can agree to disagree on this point. I'm mainly talking about the teams at the top and last year all but one of those teams was a shotgun heavy team. The Jets though do make a good segway into my next point.

The "most feared" defense in the league last year, most would argue, was the Jets. Now yes the Jets ran some zone, but as evident by their off season moves they prefer to play their corners man to man. DCs around the country would be silly if they don't stand up and look at what the Jets are doing and try to accomplish the same thing via schemes and personnel. If you played in a spread style offense you know that it works very well against that style of defense and it forces an amazing chess match between coordinators which gets carried out on the field.

[Amoo316]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Your 1st point goes a long way. Supporting cast. The talent level in college is way greater than in the pros. Tebow has played with the best talent in the nation. While Locker was playing with some of the worst talent is FBS. Locker is a better athlete than Tebow so if you say their arms are a push Locker should be the better prospect. College numbers are so misleading. It's too much based on supporting cast and systems.

Tebow also played against superior defenses. It was their Defense that won them two National Championships while he was there. Their offense played a huge part, but their defenses carried the flag. Tebow also put up better numbers. I do agree with you though that the college numbers don't tell the whole story. That said I don't think you can claim Locker is a better athlete, I would see it and arm strength as a push.

My whole point really is when I look at one I see the other. Only real difference is Locker had the year off to adjust his mechanics.

[shotgun styles]

I agree. Jake Locker is alot of fun to watch. He represents what the modern QB SHOULD be.

He'll wash out of the NFL in 3 years. That's the sad truth.

[Amoo316]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milbut

My whole point really is when I look at one I see the other. Only real difference is Locker had the year off to adjust his mechanics.

Maybe I'm just being a "Homer" as one likes to say, but I don't see any difference what-so-ever in the two guys other then the one thing Tebow is working to change the "slow" release. (I agree it's about delivery speed and not the motion.)

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milbut

This is one of the fundamental reasons why it may not happen and I don't think it has anything to do with all that jazz people were talking about earlier. But again that argument was made about bringing the spread to the SEC even before Tebow got there. I know the SEC is not the NFL and there is still an unbalance, but it is a good place to start looking because of the level of speed and talent in the league. I think we can agree to disagree on this point. I'm mainly talking about the teams at the top and last year all but one of those teams was a shotgun heavy team. The Jets though do make a good segway into my next point. The "most feared" defense in the league last year, most would argue, was the Jets. Now yes the Jets ran some zone, but as evident by their off season moves they prefer to play their corners man to man. DCs around the country would be silly if they don't stand up and look at what the Jets are doing and try to accomplish the same thing via schemes and personnel. If you played in a spread style offense you know that it works very well against that style of defense and it forces an amazing chess match between coordinators which gets carried out on the field.

If you can protect the QB, and you have a QB who can make quick decisions and deliver the ball where coverage dictates, the spread type of offense is tough on any defense. It puts the defense in a bind no matter what type of coverage they play.

I guess for me though, the difficulty in protecting the QB against NFL caliber athletes on defense and their ability to bring pressure from so many angles and looks makes me skeptical on it's full time usage.

As for this topic, even if the spread comes in to vogue in the NFL, you can still be succesful with it, without an athletic QB.

If you look at the AFC, of the top 4 teams. Only Indy is what I would classify as a shotgun heavy team.

San Diego threw the ball a lot, but they run more traditional sets than not. Baltimore ran a very balanced offense, that was not what I would consider shotgun or spread heavy and the Jets ran the ball down people's throats.

The NFC was similiar.

Minnesota and Dallas were both pretty traditional offensively. While New Orleans and Arizona spread the field more than most. Although Arizona and New Orleans also ran the ball out of traditional player groupings more than most people seem to think.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milbut

Maybe I'm just being a "Homer" as one likes to say, but I don't see any difference what-so-ever in the two guys other then the one thing Tebow is working to change the "slow" release. (I agree it's about delivery speed and not the motion.)

I think Tebow given time to develop actually could play QB at this level.

That being said, I think Locker (who I have seen quite a bit) is the more gifted player as a passer. Or at least has more upside as a passer beyond just the release.

Although all reports I have read from UF's pro day is that Tebow had shown a ton of improvement on his fundamentals and had a nice showing as a passer.

If I were going to take one and I was an NFL GM, I take Locker in a heartbeat based on talent alone. That being said, Tebow's intangibles have a lot of weight.

I guess what I am saying is, I have no idea who I'd take...