Pro Football Hall of Fame - Class of 2011

[spit_bubble]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

3 SB appearances actually...

I was speaking specifically about "The Greatest Show on Turf" system...



Though I suppose you could even make the argument Warner's SB appearance with Arizona was of benefit from a system, a system with two great WRs, but I wouldn't. There have been a lot of QBs in similar situations who accomplished much less.

[The15thunter]

Quote: Originally Posted by spit_bubble

I was speaking specifically about "The Greatest Show on Turf" system... Though I suppose you could even make the argument Warner's SB appearance with Arizona was of benefit from a system, a system with two great WRs, but I wouldn't. There have been a lot of QBs in similar situations who accomplished much less.

i agree, that's a bad argument to make considering how poorly the team did before and has done after warner.

[SPTO]

Quote: Originally Posted by jth1331

Thank goodness more people feel Bettis and Curtis Martin aren't deserving of the HOF. Over their careers, I could argue Terrell Davis had more meaningful seasons than both(not combined).

I don't understand how some could feel that way but it's their opinion. Bettis was the engine that made the Steelers go in his career. It was until late in his career that the Steelers shifted focus and became a more pass oriented team. He put up some great numbers. The guy had 8 1000 yard seasons with 6 of them all in a row. That's pretty damn good especially when you consider his style of running. Maybe he won't be first ballot (though I believe he could be) but he'll be in the Hall.

As for Curtis Martin, the man had the misfortune of being one of the quietest and unassuming stars of his generation. The man had numbers where you'd say he was great but because he didn't put attention to himself no one really noticed which is a feat in itself as most of his career was played in NY!

He was a model of consistency in his 10 years as a pro he had 1000 yard seasons in all but one of those years. Sure, he didn't hit the endzone a lot but he wasn't used in that way very often. According to pro-football reference the one player that matches up to Martin the best is Tony Dorsett and well, he's a HOFer so I can't see Martin not being one.

[The15thunter]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

I don't understand how some could feel that way but it's their opinion. Bettis was the engine that made the Steelers go in his career. It was until late in his career that the Steelers shifted focus and became a more pass oriented team. He put up some great numbers. The guy had 8 1000 yard seasons with 6 of them all in a row. That's pretty damn good especially when you consider his style of running. Maybe he won't be first ballot (though I believe he could be) but he'll be in the Hall. As for Curtis Martin, the man had the misfortune of being one of the quietest and unassuming stars of his generation. The man had numbers where you'd say he was great but because he didn't put attention to himself no one really noticed which is a feat in itself as most of his career was played in NY! He was a model of consistency in his 10 years as a pro he had 1000 yard seasons in all but one of those years. Sure, he didn't hit the endzone a lot but he wasn't used in that way very often. According to pro-football reference the one player that matches up to Martin the best is Tony Dorsett and well, he's a HOFer so I can't see Martin not being one.

neither of them passes the eye test. at no point in either of their careers would you say, "i am witnessing one of the best football players to play the game". at no point would you not have taken at least three other running backs over them each year.

[SPTO]

Quote: Originally Posted by The15thunter

neither of them passes the eye test. at no point in either of their careers would you say, "i am witnessing one of the best football players to play the game". at no point would you not have taken at least three other running backs over them each year.

I can see that in regards to Martin but in his prime, i'd definitely want Bettis on my team especially if I believe in being a physical bruising type of ballclub.

[jth1331]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

I don't understand how some could feel that way but it's their opinion. Bettis was the engine that made the Steelers go in his career. It was until late in his career that the Steelers shifted focus and became a more pass oriented team. He put up some great numbers. The guy had 8 1000 yard seasons with 6 of them all in a row. That's pretty damn good especially when you consider his style of running. Maybe he won't be first ballot (though I believe he could be) but he'll be in the Hall. As for Curtis Martin, the man had the misfortune of being one of the quietest and unassuming stars of his generation. The man had numbers where you'd say he was great but because he didn't put attention to himself no one really noticed which is a feat in itself as most of his career was played in NY! He was a model of consistency in his 10 years as a pro he had 1000 yard seasons in all but one of those years. Sure, he didn't hit the endzone a lot but he wasn't used in that way very often. According to pro-football reference the one player that matches up to Martin the best is Tony Dorsett and well, he's a HOFer so I can't see Martin not being one.

Eddie George put up 7 years of rushing for 1,000 or more yards, is he a HOFer? No, because rushing yards, like receiving yards, are becoming overblown as more and more RB's/WR's eclipse "historic" numbers in offense oriented era we are in.
In my eyes, Bettis had 3, maybe 4 years in his entire career where he produced like an elite back. 13 years, and only 1/4 was great. Yeah, I'm not buying him being of the best RB's of all time.
Martin has a little bit more success though, but still, in all those years, did you ever think of him as one of the best backs in the game? I didn't. He was good, but not elite/special.

[slickdtc]

That's what I'm saying. They compiled stats, they were very consistent and very solid. But it's the Hall of Fame! The very best of the very best. Everyone can't go in, and I think Bettis and Martin are those fringe guys. As they say, the Hall of Very Good. They were near the top of their era, but never the top of their era. They just don't strike me as HOF'ers.

[The15thunter]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

I can see that in regards to Martin but in his prime, i'd definitely want Bettis on my team especially if I believe in being a physical bruising type of ballclub.

i understand that, but that's a stylistic approach, not an indication that he was one of the best to ever play the game. just because he fits a certain type of offense doesn't mean he's an all-time great, just means he's good at ball control offense and doesn't turn it over.