Vince Young done as a Titan.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

The Titans were 30-17 with VY and 15-18 without him(with most of those 15 wins coming in 1 season). While he's not the best QB out there, you're going to tell me that it's just a mere coincidence that the Titans were 13 games over .500 with him and 3 games under without him? Really?

I didn't say it was a coincidental the Titans record with Young. He is clearly the best option on that team for the position. I was merely pointing out that there are other factors that go into a football team winning... and losing, so give me something else that points to Vince Young as a quality quarterback other than 30-17, because in every one of those wins, while I can point to a throw or a 3rd down run, I can also point to a forced fumble, an interception, a sack. With the loses, the same thing, I bet I can point to half a dozen plays that weren't made by someone else.

And if you're going to point out that 15 of the Titan wins came in one season then at least 8 of Young's wins came in the second half of a lost season against weaker compeition than was in the first half of that schedule (that would make him 22-17). You can get numbers to say almost anything.

There was this entire post on page 2 from Rider from ESPN that broke down Fisher's 140 wins -- pretty minimizing them.

Quote:

Per espn: Fisher’s winning percentage now is .542 (142-120). Among NFL coaches who have at least 140 regular-season wins, only Dan Reeves has a lower win percentage. Reeves was 190-165-2 in the regular season, for a .535 mark. Among head coaches with at least 140 regular-season wins, no one has had fewer winning seasons than Fisher’s six. The next closest would be nine winning seasons (Mike Shanahan and Marv Levy). If you knock that down to a 120-win threshold, Fisher still has the fewest winning seasons. Jim Mora (215), Dick Vermeil (120), Mike Ditka (121) and Weeb Ewbank (130) all had seven winning seasons. Among coaches with 140 regular season wins, Fisher’s 5-6 playoff record makes for the third-worst playoff winning percentage (.455). Marty Schottenheimer is at .278 (5-13) , Chuck Knox at .389 (7-11) and Bud Grant is also at .455 (10-12).

Then I saw in this thread the quote calling Vince the "winningest QB in Titan franchise history." My initial post was simply pointing out that I don't think that is an accurate gauge of how good a quarterback is, as Rider's post on the other QB's winning % against .500 teams illustrated. But if we are going to analyze and put Fisher's numbers under scrutiny, then Vince deserves the same thing.

The Titans record with him isn't a coincidence, he is clearly a quality football player, but tell me something about him that makes him irreplacable.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

That's the way it is in general w/ all QBs, too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses. VY got a lot of flack, most of it deserved, for the way things went down in Tennessee, but Fisher got out of it pretty clean all things considered. Vince gets the blame for Tennessee's problems but everyone ignores that they went 1-7 down the stretch after he got hurt. All we hear on the news is how great a coach Fisher is, when he's a .500 or so coach who hasn't won a playoff game since 2003. Vince has been Fisher's personal scapegoat in some ways in Tennessee. I don't really think I've seen this 'praise' you speak of. Even when people note that he wins as a starter, most acknowledge his maturity issues and say he's likely a backup QB now even w/ that record as a starter.

Okay, now I can dig what you're saying here. Fisher does deserve his share of blame, lot of blame. If Vince doesn't melt down then Fisher really is on the hook for the way the season ended. He is a defensive coach and that defense completely came apart down the stretch. No excuses whatsoever there.

And "praise", maybe that's not quite the right word there, but when I hear Vince analyzed, he isn't exalted for his ability to decipher coverage, or his pin-point accuracy, I hear the analysts referring to VY as a winner. And all I was pointing out by posting 13-14 vs. .500 or better teams is tell me something else good about him as a player.

[Nza]

The winner argument is a hard sell for a QB who otherwise wasn't really great at anything else in particular - but that's the enigma that is Vince Young. Mawae recently criticized Young fairly heavily in an ESPN (I think) article he was quoted in, mostly for his lack of dedication, but he finished by saying "all that aside, Vince Young is still a winner", or something like that. It's one thing for fans and media to get behind this cliche, but for a HOF guy like Mawae who was openly critical of him to point it out, well it holds some value.

Some QBs can throw a nice ball, read a defense well, but still just not have that knack. It doesn't come down to passer rating; it's something else. For Titans fans, we've had front row seats to the contrast as Kerry Collins is the poster boy - he is not a winner. He is a more capable passer than Young in most areas (not deep), and he may or may not even have a better 4th Q rating and stats - he just simply does not have that ability to will his way to victory.

[lonewolf371]

Quote: Originally Posted by z Revis

The Titans were 30-17 with VY and 15-18 without him(with most of those 15 wins coming in 1 season). While he's not the best QB out there, you're going to tell me that it's just a mere coincidence that the Titans were 13 games over .500 with him and 3 games under without him? Really?

I'm willing to say that.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZB9

"Young leaves as the QB with the highest winning percentage in franchise history"......

And if he was a good player, didn't have psychological and maturity issues, put forth the effort, was a leader, and had any inkling of intelligence, he'd still be a Titan.

A lot of those wins were despite him playing poorly.

[N51_rob]

If you want to hear a telling interview Doug Gottlieb interviewed Kevin Mawae and he said some things that I found interesting. Namely, that VY would call wrong plays, not know which plays were suppose to be called. He goes on and says that the entire huddle had more of a burden of knowing the whole offense because VY didn't. Pretty sure the interview is on the espnradio website.


Edit: Link to Mawae interview: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/show?showId=douggottlieb#

[DaImmaculateONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

The winner argument is a hard sell for a QB who otherwise wasn't really great at anything else in particular - but that's the enigma that is Vince Young. Mawae recently criticized Young fairly heavily in an ESPN (I think) article he was quoted in, mostly for his lack of dedication, but he finished by saying "all that aside, Vince Young is still a winner", or something like that. It's one thing for fans and media to get behind this cliche, but for a HOF guy like Mawae who was openly critical of him to point it out, well it holds some value. Some QBs can throw a nice ball, read a defense well, but still just not have that knack. It doesn't come down to passer rating; it's something else. For Titans fans, we've had front row seats to the contrast as Kerry Collins is the poster boy - he is not a winner. He is a more capable passer than Young in most areas (not deep), and he may or may not even have a better 4th Q rating and stats - he just simply does not have that ability to will his way to victory.

like Dat Phan says "JUST WIN BABY!" which is wat Vince does

[echelon8]

VY is a good QB, I'm happy he was released because the titan's system is horrible, run the ball 2 times and then ask him to convert a 3 and 8. That said i doubt VY took football serious enough to realize his potential. This may give him the motivation he needs, put him with a good coordinator and he will destory. As for him being a backup....seriously? After watching the jets tonight, if sanchez is a true stater in NFL VY should have plenty of teams knocking on his door.