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Old 09-10-2011, 12:27 PM   #33
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

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Originally Posted by SportsTop
As you said tiny bit....although I'll concede that he has slightly more than a tiny bit to do with it.

My overall point is that this rating system punishes a QB to harshly for the result of that play. Throw away passes when the defense dictates it, either by their coverage or pressure, shouldn't carry that much weight.

From what I understand about tQBR, if the Saints were winning the game and Brees threw an INT into double coverage far down the field, it would be less of a punishment than throwing an incompletion on 4th & 1 in the red zone against a perfectly called defense. That just doesn't feel right to me.

Again, I want to know how badly Rodgers was punished, if at all, for not converting on the Packers last two drives that allowed the Saints a chance to tie the game at the end. Since when is the 1st quarter the most important quarter or the first team with the ball -- that is when the "game will be closest" 90% of the time? I always thought QBs were measured by their 4th quarter performances.

And let me clarify -- I'm not a Brees homer. I just think the system stinks.
I remember them specifically saying that QBs aren't punished for throwing the ball away if the defense dictates it, but unfortunately, Brees throw away was basically a turnover.

And I think it's more because Rodgers was on fire and built an early lead for his team and then basically just coasted the rest of the game because he could.
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:35 PM   #34
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsTop
As you said tiny bit....although I'll concede that he has slightly more than a tiny bit to do with it.

My overall point is that this rating system punishes a QB to harshly for the result of that play. Throw away passes when the defense dictates it, either by their coverage or pressure, shouldn't carry that much weight.

From what I understand about tQBR, if the Saints were winning the game and Brees threw an INT into double coverage far down the field, it would be less of a punishment than throwing an incompletion on 4th & 1 in the red zone against a perfectly called defense. That just doesn't feel right to me.

Again, I want to know how badly Rodgers was punished, if at all, for not converting on the Packers last two drives that allowed the Saints a chance to tie the game at the end. Since when is the 1st quarter the most important quarter or the first team with the ball -- that is when the "game will be closest" 90% of the time? I always thought QBs were measured by their 4th quarter performances.

And let me clarify -- I'm not a Brees homer. I just think the system stinks.
It then goes back to your theory of game calling. McCarthy thought he could run the ball and eat clock on those last two drives. Is it Rodgers fault the OL and the RB's couldn't chew clock the last few drives of the game?

The difference between the 1st quarter and last quarter is easy to point out. The Packers were more of a conservative mode vs aggressive mode.

Again, it might have been a perfect called defense, but the OL must pick up the perfect called play and they didn't. It's the end result of that play is what is factored into the ratings.

Is that Rodgers fault?

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Old 09-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #35
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

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Is that Rodgers fault?
It was as much as it was Brees' fault on that 4th & 1 and he got punished for it.

As I stated before, the system isn't intuitive and there are far to many variables involved for it to be of any value for the average to above average NFL fan.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:12 PM   #36
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

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Originally Posted by SportsTop
It was as much as it was Brees' fault on that 4th & 1 and he got punished for it.

As I stated before, the system isn't intuitive and there are far to many variables involved for it to be of any value for the average to above average NFL fan.
I disagree. Handing off the ball has nothing to do with QBR.

I'm not sure how I feel about this rating system, but I'm willing to give it a chance beyond 1 game.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:17 PM   #37
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

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I disagree. Handing off the ball has nothing to do with QBR.

I'm not sure how I feel about this rating system, but I'm willing to give it a chance beyond 1 game.
He didn't hand the ball off. Rodgers threw a completion to Kuhn behind the LOS and ended in no gain and gave the Saints a chance to go down the field and tie the game. Not to mention the incompletions he threw on the previous drive that allowed New Orleans to go down and score and make it a one possession game.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:25 PM   #38
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

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Originally Posted by SportsTop
He didn't hand the ball off. Rodgers threw a completion to Kuhn behind the LOS and ended in no gain and gave the Saints a chance to go down the field and tie the game. Not to mention the incompletions he threw on the previous drive that allowed New Orleans to go down and score and make it a one possession game.
As I mentioned earlier, there was a more conservative game plan up by 2 scores. McCarthy's SOP late in the game is when they are up to try to grind the clock. I didn't say he was a hand off machine. 3rd and 4, he passed, but he did hand it off the on first and second down.

So, yes, Rodgers did hand the ball off in the 4th quarter to chew the clock.

Ok, we are talking about two separate issues. I'm saying overall, late in the game, Packers up by 15, they changed the game plan to a more conservative game plan vs the 1st quarter. That's not Rodgers fault.

Last edited by roadman; 09-10-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:34 PM   #39
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

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As I mentioned earlier, there was a more conservative game plan up by 2 scores. McCarthy's SOP late in the game is when they are up to try to grind the clock. I didn't say he was a hand off machine. 3rd and 4, he passed, but he did hand it off the on first and second down.

So, yes, Rodgers did hand the ball off in the 4th quarter to chew the clock.

Ok, we are talking about two separate issues. I'm saying overall, late in the game, Packers up by 15, they changed the game plan to a more conservative game plan vs the 1st quarter. That's not Rodgers fault.
So wait, you're okay with Rodgers not getting punished for conservative play calling but agreeing with Brees getting punished for, what has been widely viewed as, bad play calling?

The system has to account for everything or leave it out of the equation.

tQBR just seems to be trying to capture too many intangibles but there are too many variables to consider that it makes it too much of a flawed system.
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Old 09-10-2011, 04:48 PM   #40
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Re: Total QBR: Brees vs. Rodgers

I am so disheartened.


Call off the season boys. We'll ship this scab away as soon as the Superbowl is over
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