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Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Old 09-19-2011, 03:25 PM   #33
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by LBzrule
This is true. And of course my criticism is one in hindsight. Had he not gotten hurt, I would not question the decision. It's just that the decision is playing a pretty significant role and our secondary is going to suffer big time because of it. And from what I can tell, as our secondary suffers, so does our front seven. If we can't press then we cannot run the pressure packages that it seems Pagano wants to run. The same was true when Rex was here and Mattison did not blitz much due to the same thing. No one opposite Suggs has stepped up as a premier rusher yet so we cannot simply rely on the front four to pressure the QB. We have to blitz.
And generally I get this, but what I don't get (and didn't last year) is when we're in desperation mode why not blitz anyway? Chances are we'll get burned through the air... but we're getting burned through the air anyway. And the situation is such that without a turnover or 3 and out the game is lost so you have to take some chances. Just like you take more chances deep in those situations, living with an INT if it happens, chances should be taken on D as well.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:59 PM   #34
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by wwharton
I'd like to hear your comments on the Oline, the pass defense, the play calling and the decision making by the coaches. Personally I think they all contributed to this loss as much as (most likely more than) Flacco.
The play calling has always driven me up a wall in recent years as has the pass protection.

I really wish we had kept either McClain or McGahee and become a run-heavy offense using both Rice and McClain or McGahee to share the load. Though I know McGahee cost too much and McClain wanted to be starter - though if he was closer to a split share with Rice getting some touches in the passing game to keep him a weapon - could have worked?

A lot of years, Rice has been our best receiving option in terms of receptions. Do you think we should work him downfield some and use Williams in the backfield on some sets? That would seem to throw some confusion to the defense. Rice is out as a WR, but Williams can run so it's not always obvious that it's a pass. Could be a draw, etc.

Just seems like we need something on offense to mix up the defenses. I hope Torrey Smith can develop. That would only help.

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Originally Posted by wwharton
And generally I get this, but what I don't get (and didn't last year) is when we're in desperation mode why not blitz anyway? Chances are we'll get burned through the air... but we're getting burned through the air anyway. And the situation is such that without a turnover or 3 and out the game is lost so you have to take some chances. Just like you take more chances deep in those situations, living with an INT if it happens, chances should be taken on D as well.
I agree here too. I think sitting back and playing coverage with the DBs as they are right now is a bad idea. Webb's developing, Foxworth is...decent. J. Smith is a rookie - that leaves Reed as the major threat.

I think using our good LBs to blitz more is a good plan. Like you said, if we can't cover anyone by playing coverage-oriented pass defense, why not blitz and maybe get the enemy O-Line to miss an assignment and get hits/pressure/sacks on the QB?

Wasn't our defense always predicated on attacking and blitzing anyway? Overloads, "amoeba" defenses, 3-4 blitz combos, etc?
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:55 PM   #35
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by KBLover
The play calling has always driven me up a wall in recent years as has the pass protection.

I really wish we had kept either McClain or McGahee and become a run-heavy offense using both Rice and McClain or McGahee to share the load. Though I know McGahee cost too much and McClain wanted to be starter - though if he was closer to a split share with Rice getting some touches in the passing game to keep him a weapon - could have worked?

A lot of years, Rice has been our best receiving option in terms of receptions. Do you think we should work him downfield some and use Williams in the backfield on some sets? That would seem to throw some confusion to the defense. Rice is out as a WR, but Williams can run so it's not always obvious that it's a pass. Could be a draw, etc.

Just seems like we need something on offense to mix up the defenses. I hope Torrey Smith can develop. That would only help.
Letting those guys go was the right choice. McClain is not that good. He had a good year pounding straight ahead and did little since then. Decent full back but I'll take the guy that A)blocked for Foster with his insane year, B)doesn't seem like a huge douche/stupid penalty risk/wants to play the role he has and help the team. McGahee wants more touches and really deserves them. I don't like the idea of just trying to make situations for the guy. Rice can carry a heavier load so he was kind of a waste. And for the # of touches we're talking about, Ricky is great, and a solid replacement if Rice gets hurt. Definitely don't have a problem with those moves.

I don't think we need to get tricky with Rice either. He's a great option out of the backfield but I don't see him as a great route runner or big target. He catches short passes and makes the best out of them. They could use him in more screens, but don't need him lined up outside to do that. Cam just needs to call a better game. Who knows, the pressure getting through with Grubbs down may have screwed up the gameplan this week. It'd be a sorry excuse but a possible one. We have weapons though. Two former probowl WRs and two great pass catching TEs, and another 2 or 3 young WRs for certain situations. We shouldn't need to put Rice out there, we should find out why all those guys can't get open.

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I agree here too. I think sitting back and playing coverage with the DBs as they are right now is a bad idea. Webb's developing, Foxworth is...decent. J. Smith is a rookie - that leaves Reed as the major threat.

I think using our good LBs to blitz more is a good plan. Like you said, if we can't cover anyone by playing coverage-oriented pass defense, why not blitz and maybe get the enemy O-Line to miss an assignment and get hits/pressure/sacks on the QB?

Wasn't our defense always predicated on attacking and blitzing anyway? Overloads, "amoeba" defenses, 3-4 blitz combos, etc?
It's always been shelved when we had issues at corner though. I'm with you. I can understand not ignoring the issues when going into a game, but when your back is against the wall I don't see what the point is of continuing with what's not working.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:00 PM   #36
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by wwharton
We get it man, you don't like Flacco. This certainly wasn't his best game but your comments make no sense. Flacco doesn't call the plays.
You're right, Flacco isn't calling the plays, and I certainly have no love for Cam Cameron either who makes some very poor play calls. But Flacco is the one who throws the ball. He's the one who CONSTANTLY holds the ball looking for the deep man to open, and loses the mid field man in the process, to end up settling for a throw away, or worse a sack or INT. I can't even tell you how many times I saw Boldin open for a solid 7 or 8 yard pickup, but instead Flacco insisted on trying to bomb it out to the TE in double coverage, and end up making an incomplete. That's the kind of crap that Flacco does all the time, that's the stuff that makes him such a weak link. Think about it, how often does he settle for a short pass, other than a check down to Rice? It's virtually never his first option. He's always looking for the home run on every single play. It's down right pathetic.

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And with the options on the team, it makes no sense even if they knew they were passing that NOBODY would be open.
It makes perfect sense. When you know that Flacco is always going to be aiming for the deep routes and hold onto the ball too long hoping the deep route develops, it gives the defense alot more wiggle room. Maybe I wasn't specific enough. There were people open. There were plenty of times when a short route was open long enough to gun the ball in there. But those routes closed up quickly because, well, that's what happens with short routes. And instead of recognizing and taking those opportunities Flacco constantly holds onto the ball hoping that something deep is going to develop. By that time the short route has been shut down and the only option he has left is to put the ball in the air and hope. Listen, the Ravens are NOT a shoot out team. We never have been and we probably (hopefully) never will be. We're a control team. We dominate you on defense and we control the pace on offense. CONTROL THE PACE. But Flacco can't do that. He doesn't want to do that. He's always looking to sprint to the finish line, always looking for the offensive slugfest. That's not what we are, we're not built to be capable of being that.

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But of course they were passing, they were losing. That's what teams do when they have to come back in a hurry.
Come back in a hurry? I don't see being down a single TD in the 3rd quarter any reason to "catch up in a hurry." But that's what Flacco always does. Even when they're leading by 14 pts or more at halftime, Flacco is ALWAYS playing like they need to catch up in a hurry (which results in blown leads or nearly blown leads). My beef with Flacco is that even though he's a very talented QB, he's very stupid and selfish. He's always chasing his own fame and loses ballgames in the process. He's always desperate for that long TD throw, and simply refuses to recognize the value of getting 6-8 yards closer.

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I'd like to hear your comments on the Oline, the pass defense, the play calling and the decision making by the coaches. Personally I think they all contributed to this loss as much as (most likely more than) Flacco.
I'm not trying to pin this loss solely on Flacco. I'm pinning this on a combination of him and Cam Cameron, and the mentality that exists there regarding how our team plays on offense (to include the stupid messianic style worship of Flacco). The Oline, in my opinion, did not do that bad of a job, even though I'm sure some will disagree with me. It wasn't their best performance, but I think the problems again had more to do with predictability in play calling. Rice wasn't having his best rushing day, but then again he wasn't exactly slouching it either. We should have put the ball in his hands more, given him the chance to rip a few big plays on the ground. By the second half any thought or attempt to run the ball was pretty much out the window. If we'd continued grinding it out on the running game, Rice would have eventually wore them down 3 yards at a time. So for that reason play calling was without a doubt horrible.

Pass defense again was not exactly stellar, but then again wasn't that bad either. Some key tipped passes and a pick by Suggs. The defense had some great stops. But when your D is on the field for too long because your offense can't control the ball for long enough, they're going to start to wear down. It happened several times last year and it looks like we're heading for much the same thing this year.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:06 PM   #37
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by KBLover
No shock there.

You just never know what Flacco is going to show up. His "consistency" in Madden should be a 1.
I was shocked-not Jet-Colts in SB 3, but shocked nonetheless. Quite disappointing.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:02 PM   #38
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by pat-daddy
You're right, Flacco isn't calling the plays, and I certainly have no love for Cam Cameron either who makes some very poor play calls. But Flacco is the one who throws the ball. He's the one who CONSTANTLY holds the ball looking for the deep man to open, and loses the mid field man in the process, to end up settling for a throw away, or worse a sack or INT. I can't even tell you how many times I saw Boldin open for a solid 7 or 8 yard pickup, but instead Flacco insisted on trying to bomb it out to the TE in double coverage, and end up making an incomplete. That's the kind of crap that Flacco does all the time, that's the stuff that makes him such a weak link. Think about it, how often does he settle for a short pass, other than a check down to Rice? It's virtually never his first option. He's always looking for the home run on every single play. It's down right pathetic.



It makes perfect sense. When you know that Flacco is always going to be aiming for the deep routes and hold onto the ball too long hoping the deep route develops, it gives the defense alot more wiggle room. Maybe I wasn't specific enough. There were people open. There were plenty of times when a short route was open long enough to gun the ball in there. But those routes closed up quickly because, well, that's what happens with short routes. And instead of recognizing and taking those opportunities Flacco constantly holds onto the ball hoping that something deep is going to develop. By that time the short route has been shut down and the only option he has left is to put the ball in the air and hope. Listen, the Ravens are NOT a shoot out team. We never have been and we probably (hopefully) never will be. We're a control team. We dominate you on defense and we control the pace on offense. CONTROL THE PACE. But Flacco can't do that. He doesn't want to do that. He's always looking to sprint to the finish line, always looking for the offensive slugfest. That's not what we are, we're not built to be capable of being that.



Come back in a hurry? I don't see being down a single TD in the 3rd quarter any reason to "catch up in a hurry." But that's what Flacco always does. Even when they're leading by 14 pts or more at halftime, Flacco is ALWAYS playing like they need to catch up in a hurry (which results in blown leads or nearly blown leads). My beef with Flacco is that even though he's a very talented QB, he's very stupid and selfish. He's always chasing his own fame and loses ballgames in the process. He's always desperate for that long TD throw, and simply refuses to recognize the value of getting 6-8 yards closer.



I'm not trying to pin this loss solely on Flacco. I'm pinning this on a combination of him and Cam Cameron, and the mentality that exists there regarding how our team plays on offense (to include the stupid messianic style worship of Flacco). The Oline, in my opinion, did not do that bad of a job, even though I'm sure some will disagree with me. It wasn't their best performance, but I think the problems again had more to do with predictability in play calling. Rice wasn't having his best rushing day, but then again he wasn't exactly slouching it either. We should have put the ball in his hands more, given him the chance to rip a few big plays on the ground. By the second half any thought or attempt to run the ball was pretty much out the window. If we'd continued grinding it out on the running game, Rice would have eventually wore them down 3 yards at a time. So for that reason play calling was without a doubt horrible.

Pass defense again was not exactly stellar, but then again wasn't that bad either. Some key tipped passes and a pick by Suggs. The defense had some great stops. But when your D is on the field for too long because your offense can't control the ball for long enough, they're going to start to wear down. It happened several times last year and it looks like we're heading for much the same thing this year.
Rice not running more is Flacco's fault? The pass defense wasn't that bad? They gave up 3rd and long all game.

We can agree to disagree. I don't think we were watching the same game. I also know you've had these complaints about Flacco in the past so I feel like you're just looking for things to blame on him. I didn't see anything you just said in that game.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:19 PM   #39
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by wwharton
Rice not running more is Flacco's fault? The pass defense wasn't that bad? They gave up 3rd and long all game.

We can agree to disagree. I don't think we were watching the same game. I also know you've had these complaints about Flacco in the past so I feel like you're just looking for things to blame on him. I didn't see anything you just said in that game.
Not only that. But if Flacco is always looking for the deep pass first as he says then that might reveal the QB read system behind the offense, namely, R3. Rhythm, Read, Rush. The Rhythm route is the deep route and with R3 the QB always looks to that route first. If it is covered they drop down to the Read route, which is the intermediate route. Against the blitz however, the QB looks Rhythm, and if it is not there immediately drops to rush - which is the back out of the backfield. Sounds like how the QB operates in our offense to me. He can criticize all he wants. While his criticisms are not to be ignored, I think they fail to take into account the system. This is not West Coast. This is a modified version of Don Coryell offense. Here is a good article for that: http://www.geocities.com/epark/raide...l-offense.html

Until one actually understands the offense and what the QB is looking at I'm taking the criticisms lightly. Is Flacco a bad QB? He might be a terrible West Coast QB, but I wouldn't know that because that's not the system he's in. If I try to grade him that way he will never pass the litmus test. But at the same time I wouldn't know because I haven't seen him in that type of system. He might be better suited for that. But that's not what we run.

Last edited by LBzrule; 09-20-2011 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:55 PM   #40
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Re: Week 2: Baltimore Ravens @ Tennessee Titans

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Originally Posted by wwharton
Rice not running more is Flacco's fault?
o_0 I didn't say that. Not giving Rice more chances to do something was poor play calling from the sidelines, largely based on an irrational messiah worship of Flacco.
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