Is Haloti Ngata The Best Defensive Player In The League?

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by cjonesfan921

That's the thing. Ware gets so much credit for rushing the passer, but his overall game is outstanding. With all the poor tackling going on this year, you won't see him do that. He, although limited with speed, can do a solid job in the pass defense as well. Great player.

Right. Like I said, I'm not making an argument for Ngata over Ware. I'm staying out of the debate all together bc, of course, I'm biased (and have seen Ngata in action more than anyone else considered... besides Ed Reed but he's been hurt too much recently to be a serious contender IMO). I just don't agree that the most important thing on defense is a pass rush.

[cjonesfan921]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Right. Like I said, I'm not making an argument for Ngata over Ware. I'm staying out of the debate all together bc, of course, I'm biased (and have seen Ngata in action more than anyone else considered... besides Ed Reed but he's been hurt too much recently to be a serious contender IMO). I just don't agree that the most important thing on defense is a pass rush.

I don't agree either. I think it's a big part though, especially with the rise in passing over the last few years. However, as in your case, the Ravens have had huge success without a real 'dominant' pass rusher, although IIRC Suggs had a few big sack years.

Also, in your defense, I would argue Ngata over everyone too. He's a beast in his own right. Ware gets more glamor and praise, as do guys like Polamalu, etc., but Ngata commans a double team and gets off a block like no one else can.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by cjonesfan921

I don't agree either. I think it's a big part though, especially with the rise in passing over the last few years. However, as in your case, the Ravens have had huge success without a real 'dominant' pass rusher, although IIRC Suggs had a few big sack years. Also, in your defense, I would argue Ngata over everyone too. He's a beast in his own right. Ware gets more glamor and praise, as do guys like Polamalu, etc., but Ngata commans a double team and gets off a block like no one else can.

Suggs was a beast last year and has been this year (some say he's been the best player on the D so far this year)... and the pass rush still was one of the biggest issues with the team. It's definitely extremely important, and one of the team areas that can be more easily addressed in just one player. But overall, I'd rather stop the run even in today's pass happy league... rather have both, of course.

Funny thing, I just read that the Cowboys are #1 in stopping the run so far this year. I'm assuming Ware deserves some credit for that too. But guys like Freeney are great but can't make a defense great without the ability to stop the run.

[cjonesfan921]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Suggs was a beast last year and has been this year (some say he's been the best player on the D so far this year)... and the pass rush still was one of the biggest issues with the team. It's definitely extremely important, and one of the team areas that can be more easily addressed in just one player. But overall, I'd rather stop the run even in today's pass happy league... rather have both, of course. Funny thing, I just read that the Cowboys are #1 in stopping the run so far this year. I'm assuming Ware deserves some credit for that too. But guys like Freeney are great but can't make a defense great without the ability to stop the run.

Cowboys front has had a good year overall. Random, but one difference between this years defense and last years, they seem to be getting off the field. They are not getting killed on 3rd downs, key ones at least, this year.

I always thought Suggs has the highest ceiling of most defensive players, and although he hasn't quite reached my expectations, he has had a great career.

[untrugby]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

The reason is sacks are an easy stat to track. The Colts have had one of the best pass rushers in the league for years and their D is consistently considered bad.

youre confusing pass rusher and pass rush

look at the colts sack rankings for the past 5 years

2010 23rd
2009 16th
2008 16th
2007 26th
2006 30th

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by untrugby

youre confusing pass rusher and pass rush look at the colts sack rankings for the past 5 years 2010 23rd 2009 16th 2008 16th 2007 26th 2006 30th

Not really. I didn't check stats for my Colts example (obviously) so you can throw that out if you want. But your argument for a pass rusher was that the pass rush is the most important thing on the D. Again, I'm not digging through stats but I'll bet you find that most (if not all) of the top defenses over the years have stopped the run.

If anything, those stats for the Colts show that a great pass rusher only goes so far too.

Unless you're just disputing me saying that sacks are easier to track to explain why they are highly paid (if so, I'll give you that). I'd still say dominant DTs are in the same tax bracket. There just aren't as many of them.

[untrugby]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

Not really. I didn't check stats for my Colts example (obviously) so you can throw that out if you want. But your argument for a pass rusher was that the pass rush is the most important thing on the D. Again, I'm not digging through stats but I'll bet you find that most (if not all) of the top defenses over the years have stopped the run. If anything, those stats for the Colts show that a great pass rusher only goes so far too. Unless you're just disputing me saying that sacks are easier to track to explain why they are highly paid (if so, I'll give you that). I'd still say dominant DTs are in the same tax bracket. There just aren't as many of them.

You need a good pass rusher to have a good pass rush. but having a good pass rusher doesnt guarantee a good pass rush just as a top DT doesnt guarantee stopping the run

The only DTs that get paid a ton are ones that can rush the pass and thats rare from that position so its very valuable

last year #1 and 2 in sacks were the steelers and the packers. The steleers obviously have a good run defense but every year they are also always high up on the list in sacks. The packers had the 5th overall defense but were 18th in run d

heres the last 14 SB participants before the steelers/packers last year

the rankings are: Total D / Run D / Sacks - if you will note in all cases but 3 the sacks are the lowest number or tied for the lowest. on average the sack ranking is 3.6 ranks higher than the run D

saints 25/20/13
indy 18/24/16

steelers 1/2/2
cards 19/16/14

giants 7/8/1
pats 4/10/2

bears 5/6/8
colts 21/32/30

seahawks 16/5/1
steelers 4/3/3

pats 9/6/3
eagles 10/16/2

pats 7/4/6
panthers 8/11/7

[Rancid Radio]

I think the top three defensive players in the league are DeMarcus Ware, Troy Polamalu, and Ed Reed in any order you like. My criteria is based off making game changing plays though, so I'm sure most people will disagree with me.

Ngata is awesome though, I'd say he's the best DT in the league. Only guy who comes close would be Suh imo.