Dont Look INSIDE...Im MAD AS HELL with 2K3 and your not gonna be happy!

[siam007]

tecmo was a popular game but it wasn't in the saem leauge as madden. Tecmo wasn't the game everyone got for sim, it shouldnt even be mentioned as a competitor to EA. Back then, i am talking 92-95, EA was still the top football game on most platforms.
And back then, who developed madden for ea? visual concepts did. But all that doesn't matter since EA sells madden on the madden name, that's where they make their big sales. the general consumer wouldn't know a sim from arcade in a videogame.

On ps1, it was 989 and EA, and while gameday had a good 3 year run, EA was still the top dog in sales, even though gameday was the better game.

[Freelance]

Tecmo wasn't in the same league because Madden created the league. Before it, no one had tried to do 11-on-11 football. John Madden, himself, insisted on that before he'd put his name on it.

Now if he'd take as much interest in his own damn commentary in his own damn game, we might really have something.

[wwharton]

Personally I don't care if I'm the only person in the world that likes 2k3 (well maybe once online starts), as long as it's great to me. BTW, perfect post, ERod...I also disagree to a point but that goes without saying, you just made some good points to support your beef.

Now, I was rockin madden back in the day before I got my DC and my boy showed me NFL2k. I was bitchin about all types of stuff in Madden and my jaw dropped when I saw VC's new creation. That year, Madden probably outsold 2k on it's name and rep alone, but 2k on the DC was DEFINITELY better than Madden on the PSOne. If that's your beef, wait until next year. Madden got the lead on the PS2 and many were disappointed with NFL2k2 on the DC so this year Madden will probably outsell on name and rep alone again. 2k3 isn't so much better (or better to so many people) that there will be a drastic jump but it'll be enough to keep both companies on their toes.

[Glenn33]

Erod - very impressive change of pace with your post - but I have a question for you and everyone. Isn't it really a matter of preference? If 2K3 made all of the adjustments that people sugest - Momentum based physics, changed player models, new play call screens, etc...I would hate 2K3. Iwould feel it is a madden imitation..and why buy a copy when you can have the real thing.

I love 2K3 because it is different. I like cutting on a dime, I like the play call screen the way it is and I truly don't mind the exagerrated tackles and dive animations. It's different - and believe it or not there is more than 1 way to "simulate" football.

For what it's worth...2K3 gives me more of a sense of "playing" football than Madden. Madden - for all the 1,000 things it does great leaves you with a sense of just observing a football game rather than playing it. Obviously - many people don't feel this way - and some do. I just think it's unfair to criticize the other game as not being up to snuff because you prefer the other.

By the way...I've owned every Madden version over the last 4 years so I'm not a fanboy

By the way..I'll be ONLINE with Madden tonight late(after 10:00pmEST) if anybody wants to ball

[MizzouRah]

Ah-ha Glenn,

Yes indeed, now we are getting some good posts and no crap to sift through!

Todd

[wwharton]

What am I, chopped liver.

Glenn ain't all that.

[MizzouRah]

Whoops! sorry wwharton


Todd

[JRod]

Well I'm glad this post veered back to sanity

In reply to:

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I love 2K3 because it is different. I like cutting on a dime, I like the play call screen the way it is and I truly don't mind the exagerrated tackles and dive animations. It's different - and believe it or not there is more than 1 way to "simulate" football.

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You are right every football game made is a simulation. A simulation being defined as a re-creation of the original sport. NFL Blitz, Fever, Madden 2k3 all simulations.

However AIverson started his post by saying that Madden was a more realistic sim. While I think he got away from it by saying NFL 2k3 is a bad game. Let's go back a look at realism.

Everybody likes to bring up their one-off situations in their games. Siam said a QB bowling over an LB. Hey it happens, what people should look for is regular occurance of problems.

Here's some in both games...
NFL 2k3 - Dropped passes due to the game. The game is design to make you drop a pass should a defender hit you with a specific time. This is how the game self-corrects the offense. Because the DBs play so loose you have to have drop passes to bring the passing stats down to earth. Otherwise the DBs would get burned on a majority of plays.

Breaking Tackles - Again the game has allowed some RBs to break tons of tackles for no other reason then they feel like it. It seems like first tackles will be an automatic break. Even when you power tackle a guy.

No sacks - you get a few, but not quite the pressure we should see. W. Sapp should not be contained like he is in this game. No still special moves only seem to help a bit. Now like I've said before how well your front 4 plays often determines how your defense plays. Front 4's are meant to penetrate on pass plays and contain on running plays. On passing plays it doesn't seem the D-Line can penetrate no matter how good they are or how bad the OL is. This is a game flaw.

OL Blocking - The OL doesn't like to go down field to block. I noticed many times where it will push a defender 5 yards downfield, knock him on his wazoo, then run back to the line to pick up a defender. When he should have taken out the safety or anyone else in front of him.

Madden
Catches in coverage - Listen it still happens in the game but atleast it occurs with a lot less frequency. One thing I have noticed is the CPU needs some more animations to correct this problem. Should they make it so if you throw into coverage it's 100% going to fail. NO. But it shouldn't be prevelant and I feel for the most part it's corrected but they need to make it a better graphical representation of the catch. If a WR has position he has a chance to catch it.

Sacks - need to occur with more frequency. CPU QBs can get rid of the ball magically when a defender is breathin down their neck. There needs to be times where his blind side is really blind.

Now I've had a hard time coming up with real problems in Madden. I've seen nagging concerns that have been left over from last year's games but they aren't show stoppers or even sim stoppers. NFL 2k3 is a fun game but in term of a well-rounded football realistic sim that's it is not. My reasoning isn't the animations or the graphics. It's not the pinball-like RBs in 2k3 or the rigid RBs in Madden. It's based on Madden doesn't seem to handicap a lot of areas for the OL Blocking, to the DL pressure, to CB Coverage and WR catching like NFL 2k3 does. You can't say NFL 2k3 is more realistic then come back and say well I can't sack, the WRs drop passes, etc. etc.

Many people need to learn to hold two opposing thoughts in their head at once. In terms of realism Madden has less of those weird, what just happened here then 2k3. In terms of fun, that's what you like and what you are going to play. Should you play 2k3 until next football season, hey that's fantastic. Should play Madden until next football season hey again that's fantastic. But if we are going to have a discussion about football realism minus many subjective elements that appeal to one gamer and not another, I will give Madden the edge because it's well-rounded and refined.