Elite Quarterback Guideline

[GrizzlyJuler]

The word "elite" for quarterbacks have been thrown out loosely the past couple years now. It seemed like it'd be easy to identify from what is "elite" and from what's not, after all quarterbacks are judge by wins and losses. Those numbers never lie especially in the post season where one loss is all you need to get sent home packing. So does having wins and super bowls make a quarterback automatically "elite"? Or should we consider numbers a part of that as well. Maybe other factors should be considered(i.e the organization he plays for..) before putting that label on a QB.


My point of view on the matter

Spoiler

I'll use Tom Brady as the guideline for Elite QBs. Most of us should agree he is one of the most accomplished quarterback of all time. If we were to rank "elite" quarterbacks right now, he'll be one of the top if not the top choice for most.

To break it down, Brady's regular season accolades and post season accolades.
-2x MVP(First to be voted unanimous MVP in 2010)
-3x All-Pro
-8x Pro Bowl
-Numerous NFL Passing Records(ie. most passing touchdown in a season)
-5x Super Bowl appearances
-3x Super Bowl Champion
-2x Super Bowl MVP
-153-46 win-loss record
-17-7 postseason win-loss record

To sum it up, Brady has the wins, the play consistency, the accolades and he has the super bowls to properly be labeled as not just elite but as an all time great. I'd put Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben and Eli among Brady as the top Elite QBs we have in the NFL. I'd say Joe Flacco falls right below these guys along with Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, RG3, Russell Wilson... etc.

Now looking at Joe Flacco fresh off a stellar post season run. You could make a case since Cam Cameron was fired Joe has been a different QB from that Giants game to the Super Bowl. Maybe that was the unleashing of Joe Flacco maybe not but certainly lit a spark in him. So for those saying Joe Flacco is elite because he did it when it counted well thats part of being elite. A big part of it at that because if you can't do it when it counts then its all for not. Thats not all of it though, like Eli before 2011 season being questioned if he's elite or not depsite having a super bowl ring. Flacco shown that he has the potential to be among the elites but to be elite but he's still a few ways to go before he gets that label in my opinion. One thing is for sure he'll get paid like an elite quarterback.

[Maelstrom-XIII]

To me, an elite QB is someone who can carry a team consistently to wins. Not just that the team wins in the postseason, or has a lot of Super Bowls. For instance, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino didn't. Does that mean Dilfer is a more elite QB than Marino? Of course not, and to suggest otherwise is grounds for immediate and permanent institutionalization in a mental health facility of the state's choosing.

Numbers also don't tell the whole story. Matt Stafford is a prime example of this. He has put up great numbers as far as yardage, etc. But he also passed 150 times more than any other QB this year, so he has padded his stats, and a lot of the time that was while playing from behind. He didn't carry the Lions to many wins (indeed he didn't carry them at all, that was largely Megatron).

[55]

There's no way in hell that Philip Rivers should still be considered a second tier quarterback. That guy is donezo.

[dude_man123]

^^^ Agreed.

[GrizzlyJuler]

Quote: Originally Posted by Maelstrom-XIII

To me, an elite QB is someone who can carry a team consistently to wins. Not just that the team wins in the postseason, or has a lot of Super Bowls. For instance, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino didn't. Does that mean Dilfer is a more elite QB than Marino? Of course not, and to suggest otherwise is grounds for immediate and permanent institutionalization in a mental health facility of the state's choosing. Numbers also don't tell the whole story. Matt Stafford is a prime example of this. He has put up great numbers as far as yardage, etc. But he also passed 150 times more than any other QB this year, so he has padded his stats, and a lot of the time that was while playing from behind. He didn't carry the Lions to many wins (indeed he didn't carry them at all, that was largely Megatron).

Good Points, The Trent Dilfers or The Brad Johnsons of the world just shows you can win with game managers instead of elite quarterbacks. Both those teams had terrific defense to keep the game at hand so all they had to do is capitalize on the great field position and manage the game.

I agree that numbers doesn't tell the whole story but sometimes if you're really in a team with a bad defense, coach, teammates or just a bad organization overall its hard to judge what a player can really do when given the opportunity to succeed. All you got going for you is really your numbers.

Quote:

There's no way in hell that Philip Rivers should still be considered a second tier quarterback. That guy is donezo.

Judging from his somewhat consistent body of work, I think he earned to be a candidate at least lol. Who would you have in there instead? Romo? Kap? Dalton? lol Freeman? I'd have Kap in there but hesistant because we haven't seen a full season of work but judging from how he played through the post season he has all the talent to be great.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrizzlyJuler

The word "elite" for quarterbacks have been thrown out loosely the past couple years now. It seemed like it'd be easy to identify from what is "elite" and from what's not, after all quarterbacks are judge by wins and losses. Those numbers never lie especially in the post season where one loss is all you need to get sent home packing. So does having wins and super bowls make a quarterback automatically "elite"? Or should we consider numbers a part of that as well. Maybe other factors should be considered(i.e the organization he plays for..) before putting that label on a QB. My point of view on the matter Spoiler I'll use Tom Brady as the guideline for Elite QBs. Most of us should agree he is one of the most accomplished quarterback of all time. If we were to rank "elite" quarterbacks right now, he'll be one of the top if not the top choice for most. To break it down, Brady's regular season accolades and post season accolades. -2x MVP(First to be voted unanimous MVP in 2010) -3x All-Pro -8x Pro Bowl -Numerous NFL Passing Records(ie. most passing touchdown in a season) -5x Super Bowl appearances -3x Super Bowl Champion -2x Super Bowl MVP -153-46 win-loss record -17-7 postseason win-loss record To sum it up, Brady has the wins, the play consistency, the accolades and he has the super bowls to properly be labeled as not just elite but as an all time great. I'd put Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben and Eli among Brady as the top Elite QBs we have in the NFL. I'd say Joe Flacco falls right below these guys along with Matt Ryan, Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, RG3, Russell Wilson... etc. Now looking at Joe Flacco fresh off a stellar post season run. You could make a case since Cam Cameron was fired Joe has been a different QB from that Giants game to the Super Bowl. Maybe that was the unleashing of Joe Flacco maybe not but certainly lit a spark in him. So for those saying Joe Flacco is elite because he did it when it counted well thats part of being elite. A big part of it at that because if you can't do it when it counts then its all for not. Thats not all of it though, like Eli before 2011 season being questioned if he's elite or not depsite having a super bowl ring. Flacco shown that he has the potential to be among the elites but to be elite but he's still a few ways to go before he gets that label in my opinion. One thing is for sure he'll get paid like an elite quarterback.

The problem here is you list everything Brady has accomplished over his career which is why he's a 1st ballot HOFer... he was an elite QB long before that. The question is when was he considered elite and what put him in that category? Maybe a better idea would be to use one of the guys you put in that group that aren't already on their way to the Hall (pretty much anyone but Peyton or Brady).

In the other thread I suggested 55 (or someone) look at Brady's numbers his first 5 or 6 years. The Pats leaned a lot more on their defense but the team still racked up wins and multiple titles. Was he elite then and why? Or was it after that 07 season when they beefed up the offense and he began breaking records?

Is Big Ben there because of his team's wins, multiple rings or something else? Is Eli there because he's had a 5,000 yard season, multiple rings or something else?

Quote: Originally Posted by GrizzlyJuler

Good Points, The Trent Dilfers or The Brad Johnsons of the world just shows you can win with game managers instead of elite quarterbacks. Both those teams had terrific defense to keep the game at hand so all they had to do is capitalize on the great field position and manage the game. I agree that numbers doesn't tell the whole story but sometimes if you're really in a team with a bad defense, coach, teammates or just a bad organization overall its hard to judge what a player can really do when given the opportunity to succeed. All you got going for you is really your numbers. Judging from his somewhat consistent body of work, I think he earned to be a candidate at least lol. Who would you have in there instead? Romo? Kap? Dalton? lol Freeman? I'd have Kap in there but hesistant because we haven't seen a full season of work but judging from how he played through the post season he has all the talent to be great.

I'd rather not debate who belongs in what tier since the discussion is about who's elite, not where they fall below that. But Kap doesn't deserve anywhere near the discussion. Neither do RG3, Wilson, Luck, Dalton, Freeman. At the very least, I hope we can agree that there needs to be more than a year or two worth of data before we start talking about anyone being in the elite "conversation". So if the 2nd tier is a group that is at least in the conversation then the young guys need to wait their turn.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Maelstrom-XIII

To me, an elite QB is someone who can carry a team consistently to wins. Not just that the team wins in the postseason, or has a lot of Super Bowls. For instance, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Dan Marino didn't. Does that mean Dilfer is a more elite QB than Marino? Of course not, and to suggest otherwise is grounds for immediate and permanent institutionalization in a mental health facility of the state's choosing. Numbers also don't tell the whole story. Matt Stafford is a prime example of this. He has put up great numbers as far as yardage, etc. But he also passed 150 times more than any other QB this year, so he has padded his stats, and a lot of the time that was while playing from behind. He didn't carry the Lions to many wins (indeed he didn't carry them at all, that was largely Megatron).

Be careful using this point because then people will use the "Well, look at his team and the players he's surrounded by" as if that should be a detriment towards that specific player.

I will say that I'd love to see Philip Rivers with some competent players on their team because we've already seen what he can do with below average WRs and RBs.

[Champion8877]

Unless their name is Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees, they are not elite.

To me an elite quarterback is somebody who puts up great stats, manages the game when it comes down to the wire, wins games for his team, and consistently plays amazing and has way more "ups" than "downs"

The last point of consistency is important. Eli would be elite based on wins, Super Bowls, and how he pulls out great comebacks. But he is way to inconsistent, and for every amazing game he has, he has a wtf kind of game.